[b0dhi]

Jazz, you have more patience than a swami. After I read the post you're replying to, I could only sit there and wonder how someone can make such an argument and not have their brain just give up and evacuate their skull. Seriously. Wow.

 

[cer]

I couldn't reliably tell the difference between those test files. Not enough high frequency content. With a little more "busy" music it would probably be easier to pinpoint the Hifiman. I have a v2 Clip and it sounds good enough for me.

 

[JxK]

Agreed. I just tried the files and the differences were tiny. I think I know which is the original CD since it sounds just a bit better, and which is the 801 thanks to the rolled off treble...but the other two are a toss up.  And in a portable set up (out and about) I don't think anyone would hear a difference. Which means that for all practical purposes the 801 doesn't sound worse, but is ~$750 more expensive than it should be.

 

[midoo1990]

 
Quote:

This thread is filled with a bunch of people who need to justify the fact that they can't afford higher end equipment so they try to bash it, lol. Just came to say hi, now I'm gone. Later guys!

we have the money,atleast i have but we are not dumb to get a $800 supposedly portable player(which by the way is not portable at all) when NOBODY care to hear the little micro tiny details in the music when out and about.you can justify your purchase thats fine,but with your arrogant tone that you have with your posts,you wont last here long or make any friends.
EDIT:By the way,did you seek a proffesional help as some headfiers suggested in the jh16 thread to cure your obsessions?just curious..
 

 

[Sonic 748i]

 
Quote:

 

we have the money,atleast i have but we are not dumb to get a $800 supposedly portable player(which by the way is not portable at all) when NOBODY care to hear the little micro tiny details in the music when out and about.you can justify your purchase thats fine,but with your arrogant tone that you have with your posts,you wont last here long or make any friends.
EDIT:By the way,did you seek a proffesional help as some headfiers suggested in the jh16 thread to cure your obsessions?just curious..
 

Actually it is portable, being that it is the size of a Walkman which was used to even go jogging with. Also, you haven't heard the HiFiMAN so therefore how do you know it only adds in the micro details to the music? I'm hearing improved bass that is more tighter, visceral and detailed. Midrange that is more natural in tone, transparent and detailed. Treble is less harsh, more natural sounding and detailed. Along with a soundstage that is more convincing on the go. When I'm inside I hear the improvements even more due to less ambience noise and distraction. Plus, I paid $1,100 for my JH13 Pro's, it only seems "smart" to not plug it into a iPod or any other DAP but rather a more sophisticated audiophile DAP, the HiFiMAN.

 

[Shike]

Quote:

Exactly.  This thread I'd say encapsulates the absolute worst of the forums I've ever seen in my time here.  We have a thread started with the intent to have a go at people here, using misinformation based on ignorance.  Adding to that is blatant trolling, more misinformation (a NOS PCM1704-based DAC? That's hilariously bad.) and the totally insane suggestion that moving a thread from one forum to another is censorship, despite the forum it was moved to having fewer restrictions on the discussion permitted.  If there's a reason this thread shouldn't be in Sound Science, it's because the contents are so far removed from genuine science (the search for truth) and might better be associated with junk science and conspiracy theories.  Even what useful information dfkt gained from his measurements have been trampled by the awful behaviour by many people here.

 
1) Misinformation based on ignorance?  The graphs are now "ignorant"?  I'm sorry, I fail to see what you're getting at here.

2)  Where is the intent to "have a go at people" in the first post exactly?  OP did a test, showed results, wasn't amused.  How is that exactly having a go at someone?
 
3) Cite this example of blatant trolling.
 
4) Which misinformation are you suggesting exists?  Surely you can provide us with contradictory evidence?
 
5) Making this thread obscure is a very valid concern for censorship.  The CABLE sub-forum is the only DBT free one.  There was no need to move this as it didn't violate any rules.  Sound Science is practically a death sentence for controversial threads that raise concerns about products.

 
Quote:

Actually it is portable, being that it is the size of a Walkman which was used to even go jogging with. Also, you haven't heard the HiFiMAN so therefore how do you know it only adds in the micro details to the music? I'm hearing improved bass that is more tighter, visceral and detailed. Midrange that is more natural in tone, transparent and detailed. Treble is less harsh, more natural sounding and detailed. Along with a soundstage that is more convincing on the go. When I'm inside I hear the improvements even more due to less ambience noise and distraction. Plus, I paid $1,100 for my JH13 Pro's, it only seems "smart" to not plug it into a iPod or any other DAP but rather a more sophisticated audiophile DAP, the HiFiMAN.

1) Have you performed a level matched DBT to prevent placebo in your testing?
 
2) A "sophisticated" player hm?  Sounds like your basing your purchase off using it as a status symbol and not off the merit of the player itself (which at this point, the merit is questionable at best going past the FR even).
 
 
Let me guess, your attitude is "I SAY SO SO IT'S TRUE!", am I right?

 

[Trysaeder]

I make cables from $50 parts, which are no different from $20 parts. I then sell them at $200+ so they sound better. My customers are very happy and post great reviews.
 
Sound like someone/thing you know?
 
[edit] Sorry, I don't mean recabling headphones, I mean interconnects and stuff.

 

[Achmedisdead]

 
Quote:

*snip*
 
 Plus, I paid $1,100 for my JH13 Pro's, it only seems "smart" to not plug it into a iPod or any other DAP but rather a more sophisticated audiophile DAP, the HiFiMAN.

At least the iPod, or any Rockboxed player, would give you gapless playback.....something that surely should be expected from an $800 device.

 

[jelt2359]

Quote:

I make cables from $50 parts, which are no different from $20 parts. I then sell them at $200+ so they sound better. My customers are very happy and post great reviews.
 
Sound like someone/thing you know?

Sounds like someone ODed on the haterade, has some idea of how marketing works (at least in the luxury goods industry), but yet doesn't quite understand why people still go for it.

 

[jelt2359]

This thread is really amusing. Graphs don't lie.. How relevant that information is, however, seems to be up for debate. Can SQ be 'measured', or not? Beats me. I suspect the answer is that measurements go some way towards providing answers, but perhaps not all the way.
 
Unfortunately some people have a natural aversion to anything that cannot be measured; and others have an aversion for those who would reduce everything to merely a set of numbers.
 
Nice to see it play out here in such perfection

 

[music_4321]

 
Quote:

 

 
 
​

...and the totally insane suggestion that moving a thread from one forum to another is censorship, despite the forum it was moved to having fewer restrictions on the discussion permitted...

We clearly have very different views on what insanity & censorship mean. My guess is that we'd also have very different views on the meaning of arrogance.
 

 

[MrGreen]

Quote:

This thread is filled with a bunch of people who need to justify the fact that they can't afford higher end equipment so they try to bash it, lol. Just came to say hi, now I'm gone. Later guys!

O Contrare. This thread is filled with people like you who refuse to look at what the measurements tell us.
 

 
Quote:

This thread has become the hot-spot for what we call the leeches of society. One person makes an argument and then everyone else continues to make the same argument by rephrasing it over and over and over again. Dumb. DFKT has already made the argument on the first page better than anyone else in these 23 pages have, yet people who are completely unexposed to this topic continue to rehash the argument to death as if they were the ones in possession of a hifiman and assert: oh yeah....  see! at least an ipod with a muddled line/headphone out fares better than this piece of junk!
 
It is already extremely obvious that these digital tests are not going to be an accurate test for these players - why dont we rip some music from a stax amp so that we dont have to buy one and then we can evaluate it's SQ for ourselves - obviously we would be able to judge any piece of equipment just by translating it onto a digital file - yeah right. And as many other users have agreed upon - these audio files are what they are... digital recordings that lack in capturing the full sound reproduction.
 
I find it useless how people are going to troll on this thread because they want to justify their own need to not hear the hifiman - believe the argument if you want - don't repeat it. The argument from the digital point is already clear and there's no need to step on people who own a hifiman just because you are not planning to get one. This is a debate and not a "let me tell  you that your DAP is a waste of money" thread.
 
People who own a hifiman are clearly happy with what they have either by placebo or actual improvement of SQ - the source obviously matters in music.. in fact headfi revolves around these components. If people find enjoyment in their upgraded sources - so be it. It's as if a superior product has just exposed a weakness and all the owners of inferior products jump on the attack which is feeding a frenzy of inexperienced people getting trigger happy and is now blown out of proportion.
 
If these graphs and playback tracks were really able to recapture the full story: then many of the respected viewers of this forum would be considered a fraud and under a placebo effect. The hifiman is built of components very similar to those we use in home DACs - are we to say that an Ipod or measly 40 dollar clip+ sounds better than a home end DAC because of a few graphs? My opinion on this - HELL NO - a 300-400$ home dac that uses inferior parts to the hifiman would beat the living crap out of an Ipod anyday in sound reproduction, weight, clarity, warmth, separation, whatever.
 
An argument only works if the premises are true - there is obviously something lacking here and though when people try to bring that up... the ignorant continue to pour on the same arguments over and over again based on faulty premises which means that we'll never see the end to this argument. Lovely, I'll let this thread now continue to fight on because I felt I wanted to at least post something about how hypocritical it is to believe that specs are the only thing that matters - this is like arguing with my friend over the fact that only megapixels of cameras matter... ugh....
 

 
 
You should learn about relativity before you make such a misguided post in the future. Try the DBT or gtfo.

 

[Hero Kid]

 
Quote:

No offense to anyone, but why is it the people who are believing what dfkt has to say have low-fi audio setups?

Because they don't see the merit in spending so much money to see (arguably) slight improvements in sound quality?

 

[Trysaeder]

Cables is the only DBT free forum.
If this isn't censorship, move it back into the Portable sources forum.
 
oh wai-

 

[MrGreen]

Quote:

Cables is the only DBT free forum.
If this isn't censorship, move it back into the Portable sources forum.
 
oh wai-

The cables forum is DBT free because basic physics stipulates that cables make zero difference, provided they are functional. There are cable manufacturers that sponsor head-fi, and they would of course lose sales if every second cable thread was about the reality behind cables.