[Audio Addict]

Like most top end products, they introduce new technology and ultimately it trickles down to the more affordable products.  The more introduced the faster prices will become affordable from competition.

 

[AudioCats]

the main concern is that Head-direct's high-end phones have had a relativly questionable track record on reliability.
 
Jade/HE1.3 ($1.5k) :
-- popping (at high volume); whistling (occasional); channel inbalance (slightly mismatched drivers); wood housing cracking.
 
HE-5 ($600):
-- wood housing cracking (why wasn't the wood sealed? Grado RS1 don't crack, Sony R10's don't crack, AT W5000's don't crack); dies (driver? cable?); inconsistant sound signature (some batches are brighter than the others).
 
The % is (assumed) low and many incidents "only happens in certain climate". But for something that expensive, don't you think the return rate is too high? Especially the Jade. I do like my Jade but I can not recommend it to anybody.
 
 

 

[Beagle]

Quote:

Like most top end products, they introduce new technology and ultimately it trickles down to the more affordable products.  The more introduced the faster prices will become affordable from competition.

Yes. It works best when you start with your "top of the line", wait for results, then make that "sound" more affordable. This is what Joe Grado did. He had his $695 HP 1000 to lead off, then eventually we got the $69 SR60 which gave you a lot of the HP sound.
 
But now we are seeing quicker "upgrades" to already expensive (read: unaffordale to most) flagship models, and I can't help but think they are preying upon the gullibility and vulnerability (not to mention wallets) of headphone fanatics (not that there's anything wrong with that, it's part of our capitalistic society). Add to that the fact that the manufacturing of these new models somehow can never meet the initial "demand", so folks cannot go down to their local hi-fi shop and demo them. This scarcity makes them even more "desirable" which leads to greater curiosity and greater knee-jerk pre-orders and purchases. We end up spending another $1600 for something that sounds different from our $500 headphones just because it now exists. I get even more suspicious when it is always the same 4 or 5 people who somehow get to have them right off the bat and inevitable rave about them, then drop them like a hot potato when the "next big thing" arrives. Surely happiness and contentment must arrive at some point, no?

 

[Nankai]

Quote:

the main concern is that Head-direct's high-end phones have had a relativly questionable track record on reliability.
 
Jade/HE1.3 ($1.5k) :
-- popping (at high volume); whistling (occasional); channel inbalance (slightly mismatched drivers); wood housing cracking.
 
HE-5 ($600):
-- wood housing cracking (why wasn't the wood sealed? Grado RS1 don't crack, Sony R10's don't crack, AT W5000's don't crack); dies (driver? cable?); inconsistant sound signature (some batches are brighter than the others).
 
The % is (assumed) low and many incidents "only happens in certain climate". But for something that expensive, don't you think the return rate is too high? Especially the Jade. I do like my Jade but I can not recommend it to anybody.
 
 

 
 
 
There are so much growing pain during last 4 years.
 
2007-2008: Jade: a DIY project. Push a DIY project to business naively.
 
2009: HE-5: From DIY to professional. Set up a small workshop making fullsize headphone cans in our earphone factory. Semi-hand build. Unfortunately got bad experience from wood casing supplier.
 
2010: HE-5LE: Reliable plastic mold finished. Professional product made on factory manufacturing line.
 
We have finished the Long March and successfully solved most problems. During these years, headfi and headfiers helped us a lot. Thank all of you guys. Now I am very sure HE-5LE, HE-6 and their younger brothers in the future will not have so much reliability problem any more: They will have different drivers sharing same reliable casings/structure. All driver models have been tested for more than a year, including the gold drivers on HE-6.

 

[achristilaw]

 
Quote:

Yes. It works best when you start with your "top of the line", wait for results, then make that "sound" more affordable. This is what Joe Grado did. He had his $695 HP 1000 to lead off, then eventually we got the $69 SR60 which gave you a lot of the HP sound.
 
But now we are seeing quicker "upgrades" to already expensive (read: unaffordale to most) flagship models, and I can't help but think they are preying upon the gullibility and vulnerability (not to mention wallets) of headphone fanatics (not that there's anything wrong with that, it's part of our capitalistic society). Add to that the fact that the manufacturing of these new models somehow can never meet the initial "demand", so folks cannot go down to their local hi-fi shop and demo them. This scarcity makes them even more "desirable" which leads to greater curiosity and greater knee-jerk pre-orders and purchases. We end up spending another $1600 for something that sounds different from our $500 headphones just because it now exists. I get even more suspicious when it is always the same 4 or 5 people who somehow get to have them right off the bat and inevitable rave about them, then drop them like a hot potato when the "next big thing" arrives. Surely happiness and contentment must arrive at some point, no?

This sum's my thought's on the issue perfectly, and is a Regal Beagle post at it's best.......
 
To bring a quality product to market takes patience, research & development and TIME to make the effort work. If you read the benefit's of the HE-5LE on Head-Directs web-site, it's a laundry list of the "fixes" of the HE-5. And, several of the folks I have spoke with and that own both, are not impressed with the "quick fixes" of the second effort.
 
Now, wait here is the statement product! I'm not buying it! With belief or my wallet! Haste makes waste.......of my money!

 

[SanJoseCanJunkie]

Yeah - I hate it when companies listen to customer feedback!
 
 
Hrrr!!
 
Seriously - this is nuts.  HifiMan makes a headphone that sounds as good as some others that cost 2x the price, and people complain.  He makes a new edition that addresses some concerns by some customers, while at the same time designs an all new class of headphone that should be even better, and people are asking for - what?  To stop making new headphones?
 
Whatever.  It's extremely difficult, and risky, when companies spend the time and money to design, market, and release new products.  It's also especially difficult to gauge the size of markets, and when you are dealing with a more niche marketplace like high-end headphones, it can be ruinous to overproduce - that's why there are so many amp makers that make everything on a per order basis.

 

[tisb0b]

I wonder how many people will end up waiting for the HE-6LE
 

 

[HeadphoneAddict]

I agree the complaints are pretty ridiculous.

 

[lmswjm]

I think it's ridiculous and non-productive to bash a product like this before it's even be seen or heard.  Most everyone reading this is well aware of the issues that have come up. Fang & company have done an exemplary job of addressing concerns of every individual. They seem to be learning from their mistakes. It would only make the company more profitable not to incur similar issues. I would be quite surprised if the HE6 didn't significantly out-perform the 5LE thereby becoming an instant classic. Many already prefer the HE5 over many of the before mentioned $1000 + headphones. [size=x-small]Bring it on! Check your prejudices at the door and let the performance speak for itself.[/size]

 

[Beagle]

Quote:

It's extremely difficult, and risky, when companies spend the time and money to design, market, and release new products.  It's also especially difficult to gauge the size of markets, and when you are dealing with a more niche marketplace like high-end headphones, it can be ruinous to overproduce

Sure, this might have applied 20 or 30 years ago. Today, with online monitoring of activity and potential demand, if you are spending time and money to design, market, and release new products, you are obviously expecting to sell a certain quantity. If you are, then make them and have them ready to go before you release them. Don't have 50 headphones available for 300 pre-orders on release day.

 

 

[achristilaw]

 
Quote:

I think it's ridiculous and non-productive to bash a product like this before it's even be seen or heard.  Most everyone reading this is well aware of the issues that have come up. Fang & company have done an exemplary job of addressing concerns of every individual. They seem to be learning from their mistakes. It would only make the company more profitable not to incur similar issues. I would be quite surprised if the HE6 didn't significantly out-perform the 5LE thereby becoming an instant classic. Many already prefer the HE5 over many of the before mentioned $1000 + headphones. [size=x-small]Bring it on! Check your prejudices at the door and let the performance speak for itself.[/size]

Can't see the forest through the tree's? It isn't HE-6 Bashing! What I (and others) are bashing is the process that has led to it's development.
 
Why were their issues with the HE-5? Shouldn't the "well known issues" been remedied before release? Was the money we spent (in good faith) spent toward what was billed initially as a statement product? Even taking care of each and every complaint (thank's to Fang here), isn't that expensive for BOTH client and manufacturer?
 
What I'm trying to instill in Fang (and any other continued or future sponsor) is responsibility in proper development leads to happy current customers and brings in the flood of future prospective customers.
 
I hope the HE-6 is the best thing since sliced bread! But, the trail leading to it has serious queries about initial quality out of the gate!!
 
Being a sponsor shouldn't lead to protective measures from the powers that be. Being a sponsor means marketing the best offering, at whatever price point or performance level, you possibly can!!  That's the message I want you and others to carry away from this!

 

[Nankai]

As I mentioned before, HE-5LE and younger or older brothers will have different drivers sharing same casings/structure. The improved plastic casing is very solid that it does not have any crackling issues so far.
 
We started our planar headphone project from 7 years ago. In several hundred HE-5 and HE-5LE sales, we only got 3 warranty case about defective drivers. In addition, there are several different driver samples have been finished and tested for more than a year, including the gold drivers on HE-6.

 

[lmswjm]

 
I'm sorry but to me the driver design was bashed on previous pages. My comments were not directed at you specifically. However, negative posts are not going to instill anything or change the way HifiMan does business. It's just a little tiring reading gushing Audeze posts and negative toned HiFiMan posts by a potentially perceived Audeze clique.
 
HeadDirect seems to be transitioning from a kind of DIY company to a more mainstream one. QA and development appear be improving. That said if history were to repeat itself, the masses would completely loose faith.
 
BTW, I think everyone would agree that sponsors shouldn't be protected. I think that would be reason enough for people to quit using these forums as a legitimate source of information.
 
Quote:

 

Can't see the forest through the tree's? It isn't HE-6 Bashing! What I (and others) are bashing is the process that has led to it's development.
 
Why were their issues with the HE-5? Shouldn't the "well known issues" been remedied before release? Was the money we spent (in good faith) spent toward what was billed initially as a statement product? Even taking care of each and every complaint (thank's to Fang here), isn't that expensive for BOTH client and manufacturer?
 
What I'm trying to instill in Fang (and any other continued or future sponsor) is responsibility in proper development leads to happy current customers and brings in the flood of future prospective customers.
 
I hope the HE-6 is the best thing since sliced bread! But, the trail leading to it has serious queries about initial quality out of the gate!!
 
Being a sponsor shouldn't lead to protective measures from the powers that be. Being a sponsor means marketing the best offering, at whatever price point or performance level, you possibly can!!  That's the message I want you and others to carry away from this!

 

[mamba315]

This appears to be the headphone that Fang hinted at 6+ months ago in one of the original HE-5 threads.  He said there was another, higher-end orthodynamic in development that would be extremely difficult to drive (harder than the K1000).
 
I am a potential HE-6 buyer, and am interested in the Audeze LCD-2 as well.  They'll both be at CanJam and so will many of you.  Sounds pretty straight forward to me.
 
I would like to hear some of this additional information that is supposedly semi-public.  Does it include rationale for gold drivers?
 
Fang said the HE-5LE and HE-6 will have the same casing; does this mean an HE-5LE owner could upgrade their driver to the HE-6 unit?

 

[perrew]

Well, some big manuf. also can experience problem, think big japanese, car manuf.?
 
Why is most hostility coming from Audeze fans, did any of you hear the HE5LE? Also wasnt the LCD-1 introduced quite recently to then be discontiuned and followed by more expensive product?