[davidsh]

Well, sonic defender seems to be a very loud listener (or something 

) so perhaps a speaker amp isn't a bad idea 

 
You should just know that most vintage receivers have added resistors for the headphone output, easily lowering the volume by a factor of ten depending on headphones. Often a good thing, yet it makes a 10W 32 ohms speaker amp range from some 700mW to some 1.5 W with the planars. Of course it all depends on a lot of factors, just saying the speaker tabs are more powerful.
 
I barely think the 12dB attenuation in my emotiva mini-x is enough, yet effectively it probably cuts the output down to around 1W at around 32 ohms, based on emotiva specs. Oth, when listening with speakers the volume pot goes much higher than with even HE.5LE/560. Just shows how skewed power requirenments are in the headphone world compared to speaker world. After all, the amp doesn't distort at volumes much higher than what I'll be listening to with attenuated headphones.
 
Think about it. 1W is recommended for HE-500. That equals almost 120dB, but let's say the HE-500 is out of spec and 1W only gets it to 115 dB (equal to 85dB/mW, HE-500 is specced at 89dB/mW). That's comparable to a 300 watt speaker amp for a relatively easy to drive speaker at 90dB/W, though most in speaker world agree 50 good watts is probably enough for said speaker, if my estimations ain't off.

 

[Oregonian]

The HE-400 out of a vintage is heavenly......

The HE-6 out of a very powerful vintage amp is sublime........

These 560's I'd guess would be older full as well.

 

[Yeswecan]

  Just tried the HE-560 with an Onkyo integrated amp (55 Watts/channel I believe). If there were any improvements, I was going to get an Arcam A65 or a Naim or something.  Result: My PPA drives it just fine. Absolutely no need for a speaker amp. 

I think the idea is that some vintage receivers/intergrated amps have in fact quite outstanding headphone outputs. E.g. high quality Luxman L-510 (1981-82) sounds quite good on T1 (headphone output). Not yet tried HE-6 on speaker terminals, could be that even the headphone output is enough. I think that headphone like HE-560 might benefit from a typical (perhaps a little warm) vintage sound. If intrested I recommend the thread mentioned above.

 

[ohotonge]

Sub

 

[LaPierre]

Audiophiles can be such fussy people. I don't think there's anyone here who doesn't understand sound quality isn't a linear thing, not to mention the fact that though some aspects are different objectively you can't measure subjective responses to them. Some people like giant soundstages, some like more intimate ones, some like bass emphasis and others like mid emphasis. Value could arguably be said to be more subjective than any other aspect of audio, people have preferences and obviously will go for what they like that's reasonably priced, and even when it's not reasonably priced sometimes. Disagreement isn't a valid reason to dismiss a product as a bad value or anything else. Surely, forcing your ideals on others is not a proper thing to do and I think there's no need to come up with some sort of reason to justify you're dissatisfaction and disagreement, it's much more simple to realize that perhaps something just isn't for you. 

 

[LaPierre]

Woops, maybe I should have realized the arguments had faded out before making that comment 

 Well, I'm prone to mistakes but I believe what I said still stands.

 

[Maxx134]

Actually Cute likes them if I'm not mistaken, but has a slight issue with the way vocals are produced. 

He may be the original person & starter for the reason we have focus A pads for sale!
Lol

I have a big issue with the 560's. A major issue. Not enough time! I also look forward to Fang, someday, designing some closed phones so I can listen to them with others around and I can drift off into my world of music spiritual replenishment. 

Maybe look into the zmf vibro for closed planar solution. .

Amplifier matching with the 560 while perhaps not as critical as with the HE 500 or HE 6 is still worth considering...

I personally have noticed a marked improvement in going balanced with more power on tap.

Hi James,

You've asked this same question multiple times over the last couple of days... first off, ...
...
...
....
Good luck on your hunt to find out if the BCL pairs well with the HE-560.

Dale

OMG what a long post.!
Haha such mind boggling thoughtfulness & patience!
Lol

 

[tigon_ridge]

I personally have noticed a marked improvement in going balanced with more power on tap.

What balanced amp have you been using? Could you elaborate on the improvement?

 

[Sonic Defender]

  I think the idea is that some vintage receivers/intergrated amps have in fact quite outstanding headphone outputs. E.g. high quality Luxman L-510 (1981-82) sounds quite good on T1 (headphone output). Not yet tried HE-6 on speaker terminals, could be that even the headphone output is enough. I think that headphone like HE-560 might benefit from a typical (perhaps a little warm) vintage sound. If intrested I recommend the thread mentioned above.

That thinking is exactly why despite having a perfectly capable Asgard 2 I opted for the Yulong A18 which is supposed to have plenty of drive and PRAT, but with a slight, non-smearing warm tone. Based on my listening to date with the 560 that will make these extremely good sounding headphones that much more listenable. The 560s are quite revealing and while that is good, you will at times be punished by what is actually in the recording, particularly hot mastered material. I was thinking that despite engineers mastering material with headphones at points, I believe the final work is typically done with monitor style speakers and for certain when you are a distance away from the drivers sonic hash and other yuck in the songs may be unnoticeable, or far less noticeable. Think about what we headphone nuts do, we essentially put the sound as close as possible to our ears where nothing can be softened by distance, it is right there. Under those circumstances I feel that a slight tilt toward warmth is always going to be good (unless the mastering of the material was already deliberately smooth).

 

[AgentXXL]

I personally have noticed a marked improvement in going balanced with more power on tap.

What balanced amp have you been using? Could you elaborate on the improvement?

Like Maxx134, I too have noticed that a balanced output tends to deliver more power. I've listened to a Bryston BHA-1 and a DarkVoice Dual 337 monoblock balanced setup at Head-fi meets, but at present I own the RSA Intruder portable balanced amp. I use it in combination with my Cypher Labs Algorythm Solo -dB (also balanced) and 4 different balanced capable headphones: my HD800, HE-560, DT770 Pro 250ohm and my SE-530 IEMS. That's not to say I don't enjoy a single-ended output, but given the choice I'll go balanced.

I've recently invested a LOT of money in two balanced devices from Light Harmonic - the Geek Pulse X /f /i desktop DAC/headphone amp and the Geek Wave XD128 portable DAP with all possible options. These were both crowd-funded projects through Indiegogo and I realistically don't expect delivery until October on the Pulse and next June for the Wave. I chose these devices as Light Harmonic gave funders the opportunity to get involved in the design and feature set. I could have gone DIY and built what I wanted but having read reviews on their high-end DaVinci DAC and knowing that the primary engineer wanted to make an affordable version of the same, I took my chances and went the crowd funding route. Both devices will also have SE outputs so it'll be interesting to compare the outputs when the devices arrive.

There are plenty of really good SE devices out there, but every time I listen to a balanced device, I find it more powerful and delivers a more enjoyable experience. That's my oh so humble opinion.

Dale

 

[Clemmaster]

The 400 was a fantastic can. I preferred it to the muffled 500. The balance was a bit wonky in the highs for some, but at least there were highs, opposed to all the other orthos at the time. If only the 500 had more air, and the honky upper midrange could have been fixed.

that is simply not true.
The HE-4 and HE-6 have treble, too.
The HE-400 has the worst treble spike ever and a midrange recession that makes it the muffled can of the two...

 

[achristilaw]

The problem in discussing any advantages of an ortho, is the great variance of gear used in member playback. The HE-560 has the best treble ever from an ortho, you could recognize this using a Bakoon to Burson, not using a Vali.
 
Half the members are confused by what they are hearing, the other newbies misconstrue what they are hearing. Just from what's available at plug in.........

 

[akarise]

  Be sure to let us know what you think about your Ember. I've been to their website and it sounds interesting... or should I say, it looks interesting. 
And, anyone using the Ember with their 560, let us know.

 
I'm also using the HE-560 with the Ember and an Amperex 7308 PQ on the 0.1 ohm output impedance. They sound absolutely fantastic, extremely open and airy with terrific bass and sweet mids. Highs have a good amount of sparkle but not fatiguing at all. The Ember drives them extremely well and is probably a great cheaper alternative to the Lyr 2.

 

[Soundsgoodtome]

   
I'm also using the HE-560 with the Ember and an Amperex 7308 PQ on the 0.1 ohm output impedance. They sound absolutely fantastic, extremely open and airy with terrific bass and sweet mids. Highs have a good amount of sparkle but not fatiguing at all. The Ember drives them extremely well and is probably a great cheaper alternative to the Lyr 2.

I'll be receiving Garage 1217's new Project Polaris which is a FET circuit amp. Suppose to be able to drive an HE6 and K1000, which automatically covers 560, 500, 4, 5le, etc. I'll post my impression when I get it (sometime this week).

 

[Keithpgdrb]

that is simply not true.
The HE-4 and HE-6 have treble, too.
The HE-400 has the worst treble spike ever and a midrange recession that makes it the muffled can of the two...

I agree and disagree here.  the he4 and 6 both had good treble, better then the 400 in most ways with correct amping.  But in comparison to the 500s and the lcd line, the 400 could not be called muffled.  at that time, the orthos on the market sounded like they were all under blankets.  the lcd x finally got some high end.  
 
But we all hear this stuff differently.  what is horrible to me, might be perfect for someone else.