[preproman]

Yep could be..but as long i get what i want..i dont mind (remember he upgraded my amp without any extra costs..so with my amp his profit margin got less by a big margin now)..and he could advise me more expensive stuff..but instead he didnt .

So i respect he has to make a living and keep a healthy business...
But if i compare his products to other higher end brands and see the insides of those amps (who look extremely expensive from the outside).well...u know what i mean..

 
No - what do you mean?

 

[Tony1110]

No - what do you mean?

That a flashy exterior often houses a cheap & cheerful interior. I think that's what he means anyway.

 

[hifimanrookie]

That a flashy exterior houses a cheap & cheerful interior. I think that's what he means anyway.

Yep
But..am not saying there arent good builders.....

But look at the beats phones..or bose..expensive but sounds as if its all plastics inside
But let us go back ontopic..

 

[preproman]

Higher end brands like?????  Pass Labs, Bryston, Krell, McIntosh, Threshold, and so on.  Point is.  I don't think no one of the higher end amps makers use any more expensive parts than the others. 

 

[Tony1110]

Higher end brands like?????  Pass Labs, Bryston, Krell, McIntosh, Threshold, and so on.  Point is.  I don't think no one of the higher end amps makers use any more expensive parts than the others. 

And some of the cheaper makers probably use parts of an equal quality. There's a lot of snobbery in Hi-Fi.

 

[preproman]

True that
 

 

[Okamoto]

Yep could be..but as long i get what i want..i dont mind (remember he upgraded my amp without any extra costs..so with my amp his profit margin got less by a big margin now)..and he could advise me more expensive stuff..but instead he didnt .

So i respect he has to make a living and keep a healthy business...
But if i compare his products to other higher end brands and see the insides of those amps (who look extremely expensive from the outside).well...u know what i mean..

By the way..ray samuels makes standard products that come from a productionline..and most of his products are priced towards most of us....so he sells hugely!! And as his products are standard and easily made by a productionline he can save hugely... Am sure the emotiva owner is extremely rich by now also...as millions bought his most budget amp..that amp is probably made almost totally without human labor..so costs are low...

As i once said...i am a procurement specialist for more then 20years now..and my experience is that the more mass production is used..the higher the profit for the manufacturer earns in total... Its easier to earn 50usd on a 209usd amp (bing put together in a few hours)sold a million times then 500usd on a 3000usd amp sold only 30 times a year (that takes at least 2 weeks to built each)

Yeah, mass production is usually more profitable, but that doesn't change the fact that 20k for an amp is probably way beyond the costs to make it, and even if it wasn't, it's probably not a good value. Well, atleast to me.

For 20k you could buy a car. Does a car cost less to produce than an amplifier? I don't think so.

 

[hifimanrookie]

Yeah, mass production is usually more profitable, but that doesn't change the fact that 20k for an amp is probably way beyond the costs to make it, and even if it wasn't, it's probably not a good value. Well, atleast to me.


For 20k you could buy a car. Does a car cost less to produce than an amplifier? I don't think so.

Let me say it differently...a GTR Is considered extremely value for money compared to its competitors..eventhough it costs more then 100,000usd..ofcourse a hyundai is more value for money..moneywise..

Its all about compared to its competitors... If we would comparing value for money..just for the sake of money..then a 5euro bud u buy at a supermarket would be the winner handsdown..no matter how much headaches u get from it....
But in the end its the feeling u get having it...i am now jumping up and down waiting for my new amp..i didnt have this feeling when i was waiting for my 337 or my matrix mstage

We are all different..one wants and can pay for expesive stuff..others dont or dont want...

 

[koiloco]

What have i started..OMG ... I hitchhiked this thread and threw it into summit fi universe..oh well..its always good to dream..

But i agree..if i ever had that kind of money to spend on a headphonerig rig..that would probably it!

HE-500, IMO, has always belong to summit fi or whatever that means.  This statement is still true after my recent HD800 purchase.  People just go by price tags too much around here.  It's a shame.

 

[jerg]

  HE-500, IMO, has always belong to summit fi or whatever that means.  This statement is still true after my recent HD800 purchase.  People just go by price tags too much around here.  It's a shame.

That's not the philosophy for summit-fi though, to qualify for summit-fi on this site, you need headphones that sound like crap on entry-level systems and only sound appropriate on systems that cost a few grand, or any electrostatic headphones for some reason.

 

[hifimanrookie]

That's not the philosophy for summit-fi though, to qualify for summit-fi on this site, you need headphones that sound like crap on entry-level systems and only sound appropriate on systems that cost a few grand, or any electrostatic headphones for some reason.

So u mean the he5, the he6,lcd3, he90 (orpheus), that new spider like extremey expensive headphone and any of the staxes which need dedicated amps u cant use for any other headphones not being stax?.

 

[koiloco]

Yep could be..but as long i get what i want..i dont mind (remember he upgraded my amp without any extra costs..so with my amp his profit margin got less by a big margin now)..and he could advise me more expensive stuff..but instead he didnt .

So i respect he has to make a living and keep a healthy business...
But if i compare his products to other higher end brands and see the insides of those amps (who look extremely expensive from the outside).well...u know what i mean..

By the way..ray samuels makes standard products that come from a productionline..and most of his products are priced towards most of us....so he sells hugely!! And as his products are standard and easily made by a productionline he can save hugely... Am sure the emotiva owner is extremely rich by now also...as millions bought his most budget amp..that amp is probably made almost totally without human labor..so costs are low...

As i once said...i am a procurement specialist for more then 20years now..and my experience is that the more mass production is used..the higher the profit for the manufacturer earns in total... Its easier to earn 50usd on a 209usd amp (bing put together in a few hours)sold a million times then 500usd on a 3000usd amp sold only 30 times a year (that takes at least 2 weeks to built each)

Now, be careful.  Defending your unknown, high $ amp that nobody including yourself has even listened to is ok but do not start going after other amps in the manner of your post.
You do sound like you are grasping onto everything starting from your builder's reputation, how much components in side the amp.... to sincerely hope that your investment will pay off.
TBH, nobody would know if the amp doesn't turn out the way you want it.  For you, you can easily and psychologically convince yourself into believing "this is the best amp ever" after paying that much.  Nothing against you buddy, I really hope it will work out for you too.  Knowing you and your 337 long enough and speaking from the experience,  there's no way this new amp can be anything but "the best"
 
Also, there's no need to be a procurement specialist to understand the mass production vs. profit margin.  It's quite common sense for many people.  It's simple math really.
 
Happy new year and chill out before we all get somewhere we shouldn't be in our conversation.

 

[jerg]

So u mean the he5, the he6,lcd3, he90 (orpheus), that new spider like extremey expensive headphone and any of the staxes which need dedicated amps u cant use for any other headphones not being stax?.

Heck, even the Kingsound 'stats, which got largely negative reviews/impressions both from measurements and auditions, have their thread spot in summit-fi, because it is electrostatic and so "boutique". I think summit-fi is about exclusivity and elitism, not that that's good or bad, it's just the way the Head-fi admins want to keep that subforum in.
 
If HE500s are priced at $1200 instead, and aren't marketed as being efficient / easy to drive, it would have a permanent spot in that subforum.

 

[koiloco]

  That's not the philosophy for summit-fi though, to qualify for summit-fi on this site, you need headphones that sound like crap on entry-level systems and only sound appropriate on systems that cost a few grand, or any electrostatic headphones for some reason.

lmao jerg, I have found that out really early on but personally never cared too much about it.  Back again in an audio related hobby, I have learned my lessons in the past.  3rd time is a charm as they say.

 

[koiloco]

  Heck, even the Kingsound 'stats, which got largely negative reviews/impressions both from measurements and auditions, have their thread spot in summit-fi, because it is electrostatic and so "boutique". I think summit-fi is about exclusivity and elitism, not that that's good or bad, it's just the way the Head-fi admins want to keep that subforum in.
 
If HE500s are priced at $1200 instead, and aren't marketed as being efficient / easy to drive, it would have a permanent spot in that subforum.

I wonder why LCD-X and LCD-XC immediately got put into summit fi subforum cuz they don't meet your 2nd criteria  

.  I can't think of a reason yet beside the price tags.  I hope to listen to them at the next meet.