[mandrake50]

   
Hi David, I have 400i's and I am in search of an amp. Currently I use the HP output on my marantz PM5005. It is highly mediocre. I don't want the hassle of having to buy and change out tubes. How much better is the Ember than the H10? If it is more than 25% better I think I will go against my better judgement and get the Ember. Ideally though, I'd like to get the H10 and be happy with it, as it has been suggested to me many times.
 
Also, a side question, I have XLR out on my DAC and RCA out on my PM5005. Should I use the XLR on the DAC to connect to the H10, as it has XLR inputs? 

I don't currently have an Ember amp and I just got the H10. I do have a couple of the Sunrise III amps. One that I use regularly at work. I really like the H10 and though it has been awhile since the Ember was here, I don't miss it enough to buy another one. I myself would find it hard to put any percentage of sound difference on any equipment. It is way too relative to personal likes and dislikes, and there is no accepted standard of what 100% even is.
 
Having said this I would say that I have some things that make me prefer the H10. I spent a great deal of time and money chasing down tubes for the Ember (this actually belongs to a friend)  and my Sunrise amps. It is something that one can get into, given they have the motivation, time and money to throw at it. I decided that I do not at this point in my life. I also have constraints on how much time I can spend listening. Often I figure I will grab half an hour and just edge off with some music before getting back to it. The situation where I felt that I HAD to have the tube gear warm up for half an hour to an hour just did not get it for me.
 
Besides any of that, I have been extremely impressed with the H10 and the way it effortlessly drives anything that I have used it with. This includes my 400i and HE 560s. The sound field is impressive and the bass is much nicer than what I remember with any of the tube amps that I tried. I know there are those that will not agree that this is possible, but it is what I am hearing now and what I remember. My sunrise III with my favorite 1958 Mullard 12AU7 does not match it. And the H10 seems to be getting better with time.(though that could be my imagination).
 
Anyway, that is my thoughts. I think you could be happy with either amp, but due to the above, I have the H10 and not the Ember.
 
BTW Be careful to fully define terms and understand completely the other person's tastes before taking any percentages of sound improvement to seriously. Asking for that kind of info is likely not going to get you anywhere close!

 

[mistersprinkles]

Thanks for that. I appreciate it.  I guess I'll go with the initial recommendation I got and go with the H10. Though somebody did say that they liked their burson with the 400i better than the H10...

 

[DavidA]

   
Hi David, I have 400i's and I am in search of an amp. Currently I use the HP output on my marantz PM5005. It is highly mediocre. I don't want the hassle of having to buy and change out tubes. How much better is the Ember than the H10? If it is more than 25% better I think I will go against my better judgement and get the Ember. Ideally though, I'd like to get the H10 and be happy with it, as it has been suggested to me many times.
 
Also, a side question, I have XLR out on my DAC and RCA out on my PM5005. Should I use the XLR on the DAC to connect to the H10, as it has XLR inputs? 

Since the Ember only takes one tube its not that hard to change.  As for the H-10, it was a friends amp and I only used it for a few weeks but since I already had the Ember and Lyr2 it made no sense to get another amp in the same range.  Only you can say its 25% better but IMO the adjustable output resistance/impedance and adjustable input gain along with the ability to roll tubes the Ember is 25% better.
I've never run anything with XLR and don't think I'll go that way anytime soon.

 

[richard51]

the Ember with 7193 tubes for me is certainly better..... but 25 % ....30%    i dont know ......better yes .....better definition and soundstage ... i had it for almost 2 years....i am only discovering its potential in the last months.... flexibility yes....and multiple personnalities for the sound....

i am  also in love
 

with this open luminous design....

 

[mistersprinkles]

What does rolling tubes mean? I hate the look of the Ember but I am willing to buy whatever will give me the best performance. The Ember and H10 are the same price for me. 
How much do the GOOD tubes for the Ember cost?

 

[tinyman392]

  What does rolling tubes mean? I hate the look of the Ember but I am willing to buy whatever will give me the best performance. The Ember and H10 are the same price for me. 
How much do the GOOD tubes for the Ember cost?

If I'm not mistaken, tube rolling refers to the idea of using different tubes to produce a different, possibly better, sound. 

 

[richard51]

i bought 11 national union tube and 2 ken-rad 7193 for 40 dollars....+the 7193 adapter 30 dollars... +the 6sn7 adapter 30 dollars and dont look back anymore on tube rolling..... Read about the 7193 on the net...100 hundred dollars all in all... and the sound is so good.....with the flexibility to adjust gain and resistence...no brainer that its one bargain ....

i forget to mention that its use of out preamp function for my speakers and stax amp are marvellous....

 

[Focker]

So I think that while I do still consider these a sonic downgrade over the original HE-400, I've come to terms with them being a solid headphone. The caveat here is that I just don't really like these as a portable heaphone (i.e. unamped). With my Meier amps they sound better...so that's how I'll use these. I'm really tempted to pick up another pair of the HE-400s so I can have portable planar sound again. 

 

[mandrake50]

  Thanks for that. I appreciate it.  I guess I'll go with the initial recommendation I got and go with the H10. Though somebody did say that they liked their burson with the 400i better than the H10...

You will almost always find "somebody"  with a different opinion of what is "better". The only way you will truly know is to do the comparison yourself. If that can't be done, pick something and give it a try. You are never locked in. You can always get something different down the road a bit. At this point, I think the H10 will be with me for a good while. I have an order in for the Cavalli Liquid Carbon. I also just found out that I will be getting my long ago ordered Geek Pulse X Infinity in the next couple of days. At this point I don't think that either will be a quantum leap better than the H10. Worst case, the H10 will supplant my Sunrise III in my system at work. Yes, I consider it to be that good.

 

[swspiers]

  You will almost always find "somebody"  with a different opinion of what is "better". The only way you will truly know is to do the comparison yourself. If that can't be done, pick something and give it a try. You are never locked in. You can always get something different down the road a bit. At this point, I think the H10 will be with me for a good while. I have an order in for the Cavalli Liquid Carbon. I also just found out that I will be getting my long ago ordered Geek Pulse X Infinity in the next couple of days. At this point I don't think that either will be a quantum leap better than the H10. Worst case, the H10 will supplant my Sunrise III in my system at work. Yes, I consider it to be that good.

I have an order in for the LC as well, though I think it's massive overkill for the 400i's.  But as a wise man once said, "Too much is never enough."

 

[crispyturd]

Hey guys,
I'm new to the site but after reading this thread for a couple hours I'm slapping myself for taking so long to create an account!
I'm thinking about buying these soon (although I'm still looking around for deals on he-500 and 400's too!)
I was wondering how imperative you all feel about buying a headphone specific (I'll call it 'travel') amp for when I'm at university.
 
I have rooted my phone and have Viper4Android and Boeffla Sound Kernel and about 600Mb of RAM dedicated to sound.
At home I'm sure my Creek 5350se will do, but I'm really just worried about having to immediately hop on another investment.
All the reviews I've read over the past couple weeks talk about the necessity of buying Schiit products with these (although once on this forum I've been exposed to a handful of other pairings.)
 
I listen to Jazz, Prog. Rock, Blues, and just about anything from metal to Classical excluding Country, Salsa (with rare exceptions) etc.
I don't have anything lower than 320, and most of my Vinyl-Digital conversions for on-the-go exceed 1000 kbps.

 

[mistersprinkles]

  Hey guys,
I'm new to the site but after reading this thread for a couple hours I'm slapping myself for taking so long to create an account!
I'm thinking about buying these soon (although I'm still looking around for deals on he-500 and 400's too!)
I was wondering how imperative you all feel about buying a headphone specific (I'll call it 'travel') amp for when I'm at university.
 
I have rooted my phone and have Viper4Android and Boeffla Sound Kernel and about 600Mb of RAM dedicated to sound.
At home I'm sure my Creek 5350se will do, but I'm really just worried about having to immediately hop on another investment.
All the reviews I've read over the past couple weeks talk about the necessity of buying Schiit products with these (although once on this forum I've been exposed to a handful of other pairings.)
 
I listen to Jazz, Prog. Rock, Blues, and just about anything from metal to Classical excluding Country, Salsa (with rare exceptions) etc.
I don't have anything lower than 320, and most of my Vinyl-Digital conversions for on-the-go exceed 1000 kbps.

 
You haven't lived until you've listened to DSD my friend. Get a portable player that natively supports DSD and get a DSD DAC for home use. You'll love it. Going from 44Khz to over 2Mhz sample rate is just so amazing. I haven't had the pleasure of enjoying DSD on anything  better than my 400i's but even with these "Entry level of awesome" headphones the difference blows the mind. I have an audiophile friend who was listening mostly to 44.1KHZ 1411kbps FLAC and I have converted him to a DSD guy. And when DSD is unavailable, high bitrate 192Khz is pretty damn good too. I have 4 Diana Krall albums that are encoded at 24/192 at over 8000kbps and they sound spectacular. But all of Diana Krall's stuff is spectacularly recorded and mastered so it's hard to make it sound bad. 
 
Project Ember people-- how much am I looking at per year for good tubes? I listen to headphones about 1 to 2 hours (sometimes more but thats what it averages out to) per day. If it's going to be more than $100 per year I don't want to do it. I'll just go SS. 

 

[richard51]

   
You haven't lived until you've listened to DSD my friend. Get a portable player that natively supports DSD and get a DSD DAC for home use. You'll love it. Going from 44Khz to over 2Mhz sample rate is just so amazing. I haven't had the pleasure of enjoying DSD on anything  better than my 400i's but even with these "Entry level of awesome" headphones the difference blows the mind. I have an audiophile friend who was listening mostly to 44.1KHZ 1411kbps FLAC and I have converted him to a DSD guy. And when DSD is unavailable, high bitrate 192Khz is pretty damn good too. I have 4 Diana Krall albums that are encoded at 24/192 at over 8000kbps and they sound spectacular. But all of Diana Krall's stuff is spectacularly recorded and mastered so it's hard to make it sound bad. 
 
Project Ember people-- how much am I looking at per year for good tubes? I listen to headphones about 1 to 2 hours (sometimes more but thats what it averages out to) per day. If it's going to be more than $100 per year I don't want to do it. I'll just go SS. 

its not necessary to tube roll ...I hate tube rolling.... costly... BUT  i tell you buy the adapter for the 6sn7 tube, and buy the adapter for the double tubes 7193 ( on ebay the transparent version made in china ) With that it is no more necessary to look for another better tube , the 7193 are extraordinary.... read about that on the net....many other people with other amp review the 7193.... i discovered them like that..... no more tube rolling for me..... These tubes are not hot almost cold... hence their life will be in years for me.... I listen 36 hours per week ...The Ember is a marvel for the price... the out pre-amp function will be very interesting to you also....

 

 

[mandrake50]

I think that he was asking about tube replacement when they,  as they inevitably will, get bad.
I guess that depends on the tube type that you end up with. Some of the military grade tubes are rated at 1000 hours. According to some studies that I found when I got curious about this, they can last between 50 hours and maybe 1100.
There is always the infant mortality percentage, and those that last longer then their rating. I believe that they said the mean/average is about 500 hours.
 
Again, this will vary with tube type and how hard they are being driven, as well as heating and cooling cycles.  Some will say that they will last longer, but the study that I found was commissioned by the Navy and covered a dozen different tube types.
 
I will see if I can locate it again. It was quite an interesting read.
 
According to the paper, using their numbers as the mean or average, and after deducting the 100 hors that people will tell you that you have to run a tube in before it "sounds good", that can be a few bucks. Of course the cost depends on what you pay for the tubes. Some of the prized NOS tubes can cost you well in excess of $100. I have not priced nor have any experience with the 7193 tubes. Of course, ideally you would want a matched pair for this application. That can bump up the price.
 
If one does not really care about tube rolling (though this feature is often quoted as one of the big reasons for getting into tube gear) They could buy some of the current production tubes for the ember in the $15 to $25 range and just be happy.
 
BTW, I like the Ember very much. I like my Sunrise III very much as well. I am not so enamored by the relatively short lifetime of tubes, the requirement to warm up the tubes for the best sound, and the heat given off by the amps.
As they say YMMV, but from my perspective today, If I was to be limited to one amp, I would go SS.

 

[richard51]

thank you for your observation

  I think that he was asking about tube replacement when they,  as they inevitably will, get bad.
I guess that depends on the tube type that you end up with. Some of the military grade tubes are rated at 1000 hours. According to some studies that I found when I got curious about this, they can last between 50 hours and maybe 1100.
There is always the infant mortality percentage, and those that last longer then their rating. I believe that they said the mean/average is about 500 hours.
 
Again, this will vary with tube type and how hard they are being driven, as well as heating and cooling cycles.  Some will say that they will last longer, but the study that I found was commissioned by the Navy and covered a dozen different tube types.
 
I will see if I can locate it again. It was quite an interesting read.
 
According to the paper, using their numbers as the mean or average, and after deducting the 100 hors that people will tell you that you have to run a tube in before it "sounds good", that can be a few bucks. Of course the cost depends on what you pay for the tubes. Some of the prized NOS tubes can cost you well in excess of $100. I have not priced nor have any experience with the 7193 tubes. Of course, ideally you would want a matched pair for this application. That can bump up the price.
 
If one does not really care about tube rolling (though this feature is often quoted as one of the big reasons for getting into tube gear) They could buy some of the current production tubes for the ember in the $15 to $25 range and just be happy.
 
BTW, I like the Ember very much. I like my Sunrise III very much as well. I am not so enamored by the relatively short lifetime of tubes, the requirement to warm up the tubes for the best sound, and the heat given off by the amps.
As they say YMMV, but from my perspective today, If I was to be limited to one amp, I would go SS.