Hifiman he-400i Impressions and Discussion
Jul 19, 2014 at 4:11 AM Post #706 of 14,386
I'm a believer that to fully benefit from the he4 you'll need something decent current. With that said, a project Ember can be had for $350. The new project Polaris is suppose to be able to run the he6, which is even hard to drive than the 4. The Polaris can be had just shy of $300 I believe. Then of course the Lyr. Some like the Vali with them too, it sounded good except for the super closed sound (poor soundstage) which is an absolute deal breaker.

Yup. Checked out the ember. Definitely sweet. Wow. Nice deal on the polaris then.
 
  Head-Fi: Where the price of the gear matters more than the satisfaction it gives.

Not true, it's just sub $1000 headphones are not end game headphones. None are. Not because of the price though. If there was a headphone that was under $1000 that had the peformance of the SR009 or something like it, then boom, endgame.
 
Jul 19, 2014 at 4:43 AM Post #708 of 14,386
  Not really. The less than $200 Emotiva mini-X works very well with the 4. I have the combo and pretty pleased with it. If you go the HE500.... running of an Emotiva thread, you will find everything you need to know.


Nice! I wonder how the HE-4 will fare against the 400i.
 
Jul 19, 2014 at 10:21 AM Post #709 of 14,386
The best of the best is nice and all, but I still prefer a euphonic sounding headphone 11/10 times. (I mean, so long as it's almost as technically capable) 
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Jul 19, 2014 at 12:10 PM Post #710 of 14,386
Not true, it's just sub $1000 headphones are not end game headphones. None are. Not because of the price though. If there was a headphone that was under $1000 that had the peformance of the SR009 or something like it, then boom, endgame.


Who are you to say what's endgame and what isn't? It's such a personal, subjective thing that is so much more than summit fi technical ability. For many people, a great $3-500 headphone with a capable amp dac is end game.

Basically I'm saying end game for me is happiness and satisfaction with a set up that you feel no need to upgrade further, not that it is above an arbitrary performance threshold.
 
Jul 19, 2014 at 12:24 PM Post #712 of 14,386
The term endgame is subjective, I think the proper term here should be summit-fi. Which if people reach for too quick, the journey is ruined.


Yes, that's precisely what I was thinking. Summit fi is the tier of performance he is talking about. End game is a concept.
 
Jul 19, 2014 at 4:01 PM Post #713 of 14,386
Yes, that's precisely what I was thinking. Summit fi is the tier of performance he is talking about. End game is a concept.


Ah, well, then I guess how I understood end game was different. I was thinking it was the best headphones money could buy for a particular user. So while the HE-650 may be amazing, not end game due to a better headphone than it existing. I guess end game is the headphones that end someone's journey (which I wouldn't end mine without hearing the best ones beforehand).
 
Jul 19, 2014 at 5:38 PM Post #714 of 14,386
Jul 19, 2014 at 5:46 PM Post #715 of 14,386
^Funny how time changes perception, I remember when getting away from '70's transistor sound was the rage, Japanese imports were going to be the end of high end audio. Around the time Conrad/Johnson, Audio Research blossomed as the alternative to what was considered dreck at the time.
 
Jul 19, 2014 at 6:04 PM Post #716 of 14,386
  Not really. The less than $200 Emotiva mini-X works very well with the 4. I have the combo and pretty pleased with it. If you go the HE500.... running of an Emotiva thread, you will find everything you need to know.

Agreed. I have the HE-5LE running off the Emotiva mini-X, and I have had the chance to compare it to the HE-4 on the same setup. The HE-4's sound (particularly the bass) really snaps into focus with the Emotiva. So there are satisfying, affordable options for the HE-4. That said, I ultimately preferred the HE-5LE as it sounded almost exactly the same but with a slightly more refined sound and better vocals. Both great headphones though, and for the ~$500 range, they outshine anything near them imo.
 
Jul 19, 2014 at 6:26 PM Post #717 of 14,386
70$ vintage amp doesn't sound ridiculous.

 
I would suggest even cheaper solution if you need more bass, impact, 'dynamics' or warmth... EQ.
 
In other words - if you don't hear clipping, lack of transparency, speed  or significant soundstage congestion, there is no need for ultra-high-watt poweramps or super-warm vintage gear. I really don't know what all this talk is about - there are people who prefer low-power low-current Vali over ultra high-power high-current Mini-X just because Mini-X is too bassy while Vali is more transparent with only slight warmth. There are some who find Lyr to be too warm and bassy... And there are some that praise Lyr for delivering unbeliavable dynamics (in other words, moar bass) which cannot be matched with something like O2 (of course, because O2 will not deliver bass into anything including IEMs in a more than neutral manner). To continue - Vali or Mini-X can have smallish soundstage which some folks dislike... Alright, that's something not easy to fix with EQ they move higher in price because the better gear, the better soundstage rendering (that's the only thing that I have really found to be true universally)... But still, it's not about power or something like that, it's about quality (which can be delivered in 10W per channel as well as 0.5W per channel). My DA8 out of balanced XLR outputs provides the most expansive soundstage I have ever encountered (every headphone you throw at them immediately become expansive-sounding, not kidding), very good imaging and transparency even though it does not provide tons of current or Watts at all. This xlr output is less powerful than the DA8's headphone out and yet it sounds significantly superior in soundstage as well as rendering of microdetails. Bass is more present with headphone out but appreciably more detailed and tighter on the less powerful XLR out.
 
Yes, if you tend to listen loud, you need more headroom and more current to meet the demand with difficult-to-drive headphones AND WITH difficult-to-reproduce music. But for normal listening levels and normal music, almost everything will do the job for the vast majority of headphones (including HE-4) as long as the amp does not sound like crap itself and is not underpowered seriously (it should have at least like 0.5 to 1 W to become versatile enough). It's much more about what one's ear find pleasing than about power or 'power reserves' or whatever. The way I see it simply - more powerful amps usually provide more bass with orthos... So if you are after bass, you may find it useful. But I am not a basshead... So I don't care much about it, HE-4 have plenty of bass with everything I source them with music from. I can make them more bassy using EQ but it's not neutral for me anymore (HD800 and HE-4 lover here).
 
I went through the whole HE-4 thread as well as some others and this is what I've gathered... That it does not matter whether it's ultrapowerful or normally powerful amp or how great their power reserves are - but rather about it's sound signature, about the tubes used, about what each listeners is seeking for.
 
 
Check HE-4 demands... Do you see jiggawatts of power needed to listen to music at normal listening levels? I don't.
 

 
Jul 19, 2014 at 6:27 PM Post #718 of 14,386
I'm thinking that the 400i with a Asgard 2/Bifrost stack will be a good stopping point until I get out of school a few years down the road.
 
Jul 19, 2014 at 7:15 PM Post #720 of 14,386
Bushmaster MK2 DAC section might be a good pairing in the chain with 400i . It is described as natural/just slightly warm with the lesser known Wolfson WM8716 chip inside.
The amp section of the MK2 seemed to be more aimed at driving dynamic cans when I tested it on various headphones but vs the $550 Halide Design DAC HD (also Wolfson WM8716 chip) price-wise it is quite a good buy if you have optical out. Some like the modded Caiman DAC before it though, by the same designer.
 

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