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Nice post and thanks for sharing your thoughts. I think the he400 may end up regarded with an elite group of hp's.
I've found that with another 5 days of use, nearly constant, the sound on my he400's continues to improve in small ways. Bass is a touch more impactful and tighter. Soundstage and instrument clarity is off the charts. I've always liked to keep a set of complementary hp's on my desk to listen to different types of music. I can't imagine the he400 not being one of those.
I'm not sure if it'll be regarded with an elite group of "mid-fi" (a word abused as much as "presence") headphones next to HD650, K70x, DT880, or if it will be regarded with the truly elite (HE500, HE6, LCD2, T1) but I agree, I think, as long as Fang gets out of his "I need to make a new headphone every week" OCD long enough to make a long steady run of the HE-400, it may go down in Head-Fi legend along with the classics, once it gains momentum.
What I'd really like to see is for people to stop using the word "mid-fi" for former flagship headphones and any hi-fi set under $1000 regardless of sound.
I mean, seriously, in 5-10 years everyone on H-F will rave that LCD3 & HD800 are great mid-fi options if you don't want to step up to hi-fi prices. The fidelity of the headphone doesn't decrease just because new tech exists to make something even higher-fidelity. By that standard, so called "Hi-Fi" in the 60's was really just low-fi and entry-mid
I'm not sure how "normal hi-fi" shot up in a few years from the $500 range to the $1000 range and beyond. Maybe because the Beats & Skullcandy lines redefined the price point of low-fi to be the $400 mark for dollar store quality
I haven't noticed any effects of burn-in, but I can't say there aren't any, I just haven't noticed it. My feeling is that my brain is burning in more than the headphones, and maybe the pads are settling down. A lot of HiFiMan owners have commented on positive burn-in across all models, so I don't doubt the effect is true. And that could be contributing to my enjoyment, but I think that adjusting my brain from a lifetime of dynamics is more significant than the rate of burn-in in this case
Maybe in the first 4 or 5 hours there was some random funkiness that has fleshed itself out, but I never found anything lacking in staging, clarity and detail from the beginning.
Oh, and an update on my comment about "sometimes there's too much bass", it's really recording dependent. It really is there only when called for. Classical choral for example, the bass is quiet but present periodicaly just as it should be. No boomy bassy vocals appear, and the double basses never rose above where they should. It's all in the recording. I continue to be more impressed with them. That wasn't the best album for them, IMO but it demonstrated some of the technical aspects for me well. (Berlioz: Requiems op 5, Telarc.) Telarc is a great classical publisher, but in that album, something was off about the microphones. The tenor sounds like he's across the parking lot no matter what speakers you use.
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Exactly what I was thinking.
Yeah, they're in a really wierd slump. They spent a long time churning out consumer mass market stuff that didn't live up to the name, but was better than the low end. The HD650's dropped to $350 years ago, stagnated there for years, and now are suddenly back to $500. They released the HD800 at a jaw dropping $1500. I'd have predicted failure, but it has its niche, it's the only place you can get the ring driver, and if you want it, you'll pay for it. Ok, I get it, maybe it's a wise move to have a product placed there. But the HD700 is both puzzling and disappointing. When the rumor mill said it was a lower end ring driver for 1/3 the price, it was exciting. "Wow, the HD800 tech is going to start propagating, slowly, into affordable headphones, it's the beginning of a new era. The early previews said it had a lot of the HD800 going for it too!, the expensive prototype is now getting refined and moving mainstream!" Then when we found out it was a plain dynamic that doesn't build on the 6xx line's sound, but acts only as a cut down dynamic implementation of the 800's ring, without the stark treble (the 800's selling point.) And then saw that the thing looks like it was cut from their DJ line, I couldn't help but think "they want me to pay $1000 for
that?" And then the HD650 went up to $500. Maybe to cover for the let-down of the HD700 so it doesn't seem like a ripoff.
It's not that I doubt that HD700 is a very capable headphone, it's that the pricing doesn't jive, at all, with what it is. And jacking up all their other prices back to their 10-year-old initial release price to make it look like it's in line is nuts. Imagine Fang selling HE-6 for $1300 in 2022? I don't buy it. At $1000 there's a LOT of competition. Competition that boasts new tech and claims the top crown in their category. HE-500 (less), HE-6 ($1300), T1, T5p ($1300), for that matter HD800 ($1500), and D5000, D7000, the list goes on. Plus Audeze. Lets face it, for someone willing and able to spend $1000 on a headphone, spending $1500 on a headphone isn't going to break the sale. And Senn's big new $1000 toy is a refined normal dynamic that's biggest claim of success is it has similar sound to the flagship without all the benefits like angled drivers, planar sound waves, and sparkly ultra detailed treble. Technologically it's the same tech as the HD650 that sold for $350 for years, just tuned and tweaked differently and I'm sure with refinements to the driver tech. If it cost them half a decade and $650 more per unit to R&D that, there's something horribly wrong in their R&D department. I suspect maybe more importantly they tried to cut the ring driver tech down, couldn't make it work at the price, and after two years of delays decided "lets just tune a dynamic driver to the 800's tone."
When small companies like Audeze and HiFiMan and get their new tech up and running in a few years and refine the process down to cut the price by 2/3 in that time and move their tech mainstream, one would think a company with the resources Sennheiser has could do the same, and crush them in the process. Watching them stagnate and fail to make their tech more cost effective and at the same time raise their prices is very odd.
Unfortunately I think they're trying to "reposition the brand" to make it an elite "lifestyle brand." Their mentions of designing phones after the look of German luxury cars says it all. They want to position themselves as a designer product like BMW & Mercedes, and part of that proces is charging way more than the product should sell for and convincing people the name makes it worth it wih its luxury appointments.
Unlike cars where people like using them to flaunt status, outside Germany (and away from Monster/Beats in the US) that won't fly with headphones, and (non-Beats) headphones are no status symbol outside headphone communities such as this. It's a strategy doomed to fail. When it backfires (and it will), I suspect we'll either see massive price cuts or a brand new affordable ring.
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I had my eyes set on the HE-500s but now I'm in two minds.
I understand that the HE-400s are quite a bit darker and therefore not as accurate, however I listen to a lot of EDM (Particularly Trance, Tech-House, Minimal and Drumstep). As such I'm thinking the sonic signature of the HE-400s may actually suit my tastes more so than the 500s...
My library is not exclusive to EDM though I also like to listen to quite a bit of alternative rock, lounge/chill music and psy.
So confused!
I'll be using a Xonar Essence STX as a source and the Matrix M-Stage for amplification.
I'm still not certain I agree with "not as accurate." I've heard that often, and I haven't listened to HE-500, so I can't say objectively what is true. However listening to the accuracy of detail, the revaling of recording flaws, and the surprisingly even FR, of HE-400 I somehow suspect that if they are less accurate, they're not less accurate to the point of making an issue out of it. I also supsect if they were both $700 we wouldn't be hearing the words "less accurate" very often
Between HE-400 and HE-500, for electronica, dance, chill, the HE-400 is where you want to go without looking back, IMO. The bass presence of HE-400 is fantastic, as is its accuracy and extension. From all accounts I've heard, HE-500 does not have as present a bass (by design.) The HE-500 in Fang's own words has the "polite" sound of British speakers. Read: HD650, B&W, etc. Now maybe you like "laid back" sound, which means generally a boosted focus on mids, and a roll-off of the treble and bass. For many genres that works beautiflly, but electronic and dance are usually not among them. I like electronic/chill on HD650 (laid back) more than K702 (analytical/flat), but I like it on HE-400 more. HD650 (and by extension, HE-500) shines for vocalists, singer-song-writer and a lot of rock if you like your rock laid back. It also does very well for jazz, & crooners, swing/big-band, and some classical). It's very good for percussion, and surprisingly good for electronic, but not HE-400 good. K702 is great for live jazz, classical (amazing for classical), and solo instruments, but doesn't excel for other things with much rhythm.
For your debate, I'd forget the "accurate" part, that's not a critical part in comparing these two for your genres. The HE-400 should be the strong winner for your electronic, and is an able performer for everything else including rock, unless you explicitly prefer a laid back sound for ether of those genres. Think instead of both sets as the same price, think of them as equally accurate (true or untrue), and think of the HE-400 as dark, dynamic, smooth, and with rich, detailed bass. Think of HE-500 as warm, brighter (but I doubt by any means "bright"), mids-centric, agile, but more mellow (less dynamic) in tonality. Some call it "more refined", some call it "boring". Or "alive and exciting" versus "clean and relaxing" (which would also work for chill/lounge.) Pick the sound signature that suits your tastes.
Personally the images that come to mind with the laid back sound (HD650, HE-500) are:
Sitting in a "contemporary" designed up-scale apartment/house, in some fairly high-end or exotic place in front of a warm fire (in an art deco fireplace), sipping [insert beverage of choice] in a leather chair under halogen mood lighting listening to (very expensive) speakers on a snobish audio rig.
Or maybe listening from a distance to some street music while dining outdoors at a street cafe.
It's a warm, refined, luxurious sound.
The "alive" sound (HE-400, JBL speakers (as Fang compared them to):
At a live event listening to live music, not up front but "in the crowd" or in the middle or back of the hall for classical or mid-bar/restaurant for jazz. The idea here is recreating live music in a direct music presentation.
For electronica it's synthetic by nature, so there's no "natural" habitat for it. Go with how you enjoy it or how your favorite venue voices it.
Though, If you want more bass than HE-400 I think you'll have to go to LCD-2 or Denon D7000
Edit: I think I really should have made this three separate posts!