[cel4145]

In another forum I was told that the Atom Amp+ was running 1w at 32 Ohms and that I needed to look for something giving at least 2 to 2.5w at 16 Ohms

I got the impression the issue wasn’t so much volume (which is fine to me even at low gain) but that I wouldn’t be getting the full capacities re: soundstage, imaging, etc at the power the Atom is driving

This is all pretty new to me though so it’s hard to read judge (and I’ve never listened to higher end equipment before so I don’t have a baseline to judge - from my perspective the XS and Atom stack is better than anything I’ve heard before, but I don’t want to miss out if they could sound even better

There's a lot of snake oil in this hobby. And one of the myths is that more power is always better.

If a headphone can reach your preferred listening volume, such that dynamic peaks are not distorted, then additional power doesn't do anything. If you were not getting enough power such that dynamic peaks are distorted, then yes more power would help.

You can use this headphone power calculator to see how much you need for those headphones

https://www.headphonesty.com/headphone-power-calculator/

It absolutely does not need 2w at 16 ohms.

And I say this as someone who has owned seven different planar magnetics

 

[Andrew Randle]

There's a lot of snake oil in this hobby. And one of the myths is that more power is always better.

If a headphone can reach your preferred listening volume, such that dynamic peaks are not distorted, then additional power doesn't do anything. If you were not getting enough power such that dynamic peaks are distorted, then yes more power would help.

You can use this headphone power calculator to see how much you need for those headphones

https://www.headphonesty.com/headphone-power-calculator/

It absolutely does not need 2w at 16 ohms.

And I say this as someone who has owned seven different planar magnetics

True. It also depends on how the amplifier behaves at the power it is driving the headphones. Including distortion (at its operating wattage) with its linear transfer characteristics at the input/output voltage range, biasing, and heat management.

Andrew

 

[cel4145]

True. It also depends on how the amplifier behaves at the power it is driving the headphones. Including distortion (at its operating wattage) with its linear transfer characteristics at the input/output voltage range, biasing, and heat management.

Andrew

Which the Atom can do.

 

[Odinphile]

My findings after changing to a 1.5+ Watt amp.... I am trying to believe it is me justifying my Topping DX3 Pro + purchase but after hours of listening I assure you it is not! These are macros and not stating the obvious differences would be unfair to these cans..

The Topping DX3 Pro + changes the sibilance for the better, it is so so so much more bearable now and I am really only truly appreciating these headphones with the Topping... The sound quality is unbelievably good & not only is the sibilance so much more bearable but my buyer's regret is forever put to stop! Guess I am eating the cake and having it tooo!!

....while sibilance may be something that is done with ...the more important finding is that the topping opened up the headphones to a level I didnt know was possible
Makes the bass so much tighter and there is so much bass presence - its a little overwhelming for me (in a good way) ..

The imaging and detail is just coming out now!! .. I just started to feel the mid-bass slam of these now... for comparison my previous DAC / amp was - Fiio E17 with an output of 250mW - which cycloverid mentions puts out more than 115 db+/- while that statement may point to a picture of ample power and loudness, changing to Topping the mid bass is such a big difference, the sibilance is next to gone / bearable on bad tracks and the detail is stellar...
i would challenge anyone to say that changing the dac/amp dont change the sound ....and the power or whatever it is the topping does just opened up these headphones for me ...!!

In my thinking, I think cel really breaks down my experience pretty well - i was driving to the fiio E17 at 12 db gain (highest gain ) + highest volume... a situation like that could introduce a lot of distortion(?) adding to the sibilance I would assume..

With the toppings these cans are unbelievable. the sound is pristine...

P.S> the Topping also toook away the sibilance on my DT 990 Pro.. things are so much better there as well!

 

[cycloverid]

My findings after changing to a 1.5+ Watt amp.... I am trying to believe it is me justifying my Topping DX3 Pro + purchase but after hours of listening I assure you it is not! These are macros and not stating the obvious differences would be unfair to these cans..

The Topping DX3 Pro + changes the sibilance for the better, it is so so so much more bearable now and I am really only truly appreciating these headphones with the Topping... The sound quality is unbelievably good & not only is the sibilance so much more bearable but my buyer's regret is forever put to stop! Guess I am eating the cake and having it tooo!!

....while sibilance may be something that is done with ...the more important finding is that the topping opened up the headphones to a level I didnt know was possible
Makes the bass so much tighter and there is so much bass presence - its a little overwhelming for me (in a good way) ..

The imaging and detail is just coming out now!! .. I just started to feel the mid-bass slam of these now... for comparison my previous DAC / amp was - Fiio E17 with an output of 250mW - which cycloverid mentions puts out more than 115 db+/- while that statement may point to a picture of ample power and loudness, changing to Topping the mid bass is such a big difference, the sibilance is next to gone / bearable on bad tracks and the detail is stellar...
i would challenge anyone to say that changing the dac/amp dont change the sound ....and the power or whatever it is the topping does just opened up these headphones for me ...!!

In my thinking, I think cel really breaks down my experience pretty well - i was driving to the fiio E17 at 12 db gain (highest gain ) + highest volume... a situation like that could introduce a lot of distortion(?) adding to the sibilance I would assume..

With the toppings these cans are unbelievable. the sound is pristine...

P.S> the Topping also toook away the sibilance on my DT 990 Pro.. things are so much better there as well!

Hey, really glad to hear this helped.

I think this is the reason why I just play it safe in terms of output power vs headphone specs. All amplifiers begin to distort near their max power output levels, so it's good to have headroom. 200mw on high gain is definitely in the danger zone, and I'd personally do what you did and buy a more capable amp to pair with the XS.

Anyway, sounds like this solved your issue so enjoy your XS!

 

[Shared]

My findings after changing to a 1.5+ Watt amp.... I am trying to believe it is me justifying my Topping DX3 Pro + purchase but after hours of listening I assure you it is not! These are macros and not stating the obvious differences would be unfair to these cans..

The Topping DX3 Pro + changes the sibilance for the better, it is so so so much more bearable now and I am really only truly appreciating these headphones with the Topping... The sound quality is unbelievably good & not only is the sibilance so much more bearable but my buyer's regret is forever put to stop! Guess I am eating the cake and having it tooo!!

....while sibilance may be something that is done with ...the more important finding is that the topping opened up the headphones to a level I didnt know was possible
Makes the bass so much tighter and there is so much bass presence - its a little overwhelming for me (in a good way) ..

The imaging and detail is just coming out now!! .. I just started to feel the mid-bass slam of these now... for comparison my previous DAC / amp was - Fiio E17 with an output of 250mW - which cycloverid mentions puts out more than 115 db+/- while that statement may point to a picture of ample power and loudness, changing to Topping the mid bass is such a big difference, the sibilance is next to gone / bearable on bad tracks and the detail is stellar...
i would challenge anyone to say that changing the dac/amp dont change the sound ....and the power or whatever it is the topping does just opened up these headphones for me ...!!

In my thinking, I think cel really breaks down my experience pretty well - i was driving to the fiio E17 at 12 db gain (highest gain ) + highest volume... a situation like that could introduce a lot of distortion(?) adding to the sibilance I would assume..

With the toppings these cans are unbelievable. the sound is pristine...

P.S> the Topping also toook away the sibilance on my DT 990 Pro.. things are so much better there as well!

It could be dac/ amp coloration

 

[Xerosnake90]

It could be dac/ amp coloration

DAC/Amp coloration doesn't increase staging, imaging, bass slam and dynamics. That's a result of higher power output and I'm glad someone else is chiming in. I dare you to compare a sub 1w amp with a 2.5w amp and then a 5w+ amp and try to tell me there's no difference.

 

[cycloverid]

DAC/Amp coloration doesn't increase staging, imaging, bass slam and dynamics. That's a result of higher power output and I'm glad someone else is chiming in. I dare you to compare a sub 1w amp with a 2.5w amp and then a 5w+ amp and try to tell me there's no difference.

The objective hypothesis is that FR accounts for all these changes in a particular headphone's sound - so if that's the case, coloration would change the perception in all of that. This isn't a proven or disproven hypothesis, so you simply can't say it doesn't do those things. It very well might and there is good reason to think it does.

Examples: EQ'ing in a low shelf will definitely add more bass slam to most headphones. Raising and lowering certain frequencies does make many people perceive a different soundstage presentation.

 

[cel4145]

My findings after changing to a 1.5+ Watt amp.... I am trying to believe it is me justifying my Topping DX3 Pro + purchase but after hours of listening I assure you it is not! These are macros and not stating the obvious differences would be unfair to these cans..

The Topping DX3 Pro + changes the sibilance for the better, it is so so so much more bearable now and I am really only truly appreciating these headphones with the Topping... The sound quality is unbelievably good & not only is the sibilance so much more bearable but my buyer's regret is forever put to stop! Guess I am eating the cake and having it tooo!!

....while sibilance may be something that is done with ...the more important finding is that the topping opened up the headphones to a level I didnt know was possible
Makes the bass so much tighter and there is so much bass presence - its a little overwhelming for me (in a good way) ..

The imaging and detail is just coming out now!! .. I just started to feel the mid-bass slam of these now... for comparison my previous DAC / amp was - Fiio E17 with an output of 250mW - which cycloverid mentions puts out more than 115 db+/- while that statement may point to a picture of ample power and loudness, changing to Topping the mid bass is such a big difference, the sibilance is next to gone / bearable on bad tracks and the detail is stellar...
i would challenge anyone to say that changing the dac/amp dont change the sound ....and the power or whatever it is the topping does just opened up these headphones for me ...!!

In my thinking, I think cel really breaks down my experience pretty well - i was driving to the fiio E17 at 12 db gain (highest gain ) + highest volume... a situation like that could introduce a lot of distortion(?) adding to the sibilance I would assume..

With the toppings these cans are unbelievable. the sound is pristine...

P.S> the Topping also toook away the sibilance on my DT 990 Pro.. things are so much better there as well!

The E17 is it pretty old model. It could be related to power output. I think Fiio rated at 200mw at 32 ohms. But it could be a current limited amp and perform worse at lower impedance.

And it could be it has some audible noise and distortion, which the DX3 Pro+ does not have.

 

[Xerosnake90]

The objective hypothesis is that FR accounts for all these changes in a particular headphone's sound - so if that's the case, coloration would change the perception in all of that. This isn't a proven or disproven hypothesis, so you simply can't say it doesn't do those things. It very well might and there is good reason to think it does.

Examples: EQ'ing in a low shelf will definitely add more bass slam to most headphones. Raising and lowering certain frequencies does make many people perceive a different soundstage presentation.

I can see the argument behind it. I've perceived more bass slam when adding bass eq, and more details with higher treble. I suppose to further support the coloration theory you'd have to take two neutral amps at different power outputs and see if the same changes in technicalities occur. I'd like to think the Hel 2 and Jotunheim (in balanced) are fairly neutral but I could be wrong

 

[crea1986]

Running them trough the Zen dac V2/Zen Can Stack balanced i think they are running with enough power,what do you guys think?

 

[bagwell359]

I'd wager almost everyone here who knows the HFM HE-6 6 screw has an idea of what

I can see the argument behind it. I've perceived more bass slam when adding bass eq, and more details with higher treble. I suppose to further support the coloration theory you'd have to take two neutral amps at different power outputs and see if the same changes in technicalities occur. I'd like to think the Hel 2 and Jotunheim (in balanced) are fairly neutral but I could be wrong

I'd wager that those here that know the HE-6 6 screw have an idea of what bass slam means to them. Very quick rise time in a very coherent snap.

You can add 10 or 12 +db bass shelfs and at best you get more volume with the personality of the can intact. In other cases you get worse Q, shading instruments like cello and viola deeper than they should be, might even have phase issues. None of that is bass slam to me.

 

[Xerosnake90]

Back to the Edition XS

The headband creates hot spots so I went ahead and ordered some headbands from Amazon. The Geekria hook kind, one in Medium Valour and the other in Large with a leather pad. The medium might not fit but I prefer a valour pad over the protein leather of the large so I might swap them. Will see next week what works

 

[cycloverid]

I'd wager almost everyone here who knows the HFM HE-6 6 screw has an idea of what

I'd wager that those here that know the HE-6 6 screw have an idea of what bass slam means to them. Very quick rise time in a very coherent snap.

You can add 10 or 12 +db bass shelfs and at best you get more volume with the personality of the can intact. In other cases you get worse Q, shading instruments like cello and viola deeper than they should be, might even have phase issues. None of that is bass slam to me.

Seems like it probably depends a lot on what genres of music you listen to. I like a really wide range of genres I'd say, from softer indie rock to electronic to hip hop. A bass boosted planar with excellent extension like this Edition XS will absolutely shake your head with many hip hop tracks (largely low/sub bass). This headphone just dominates in this category, with very controlled and deeply extended sub bass - it's fantastic. I imagine maybe a Focal would do better in high bass/punch, but I haven't tried them. I'd be curious to do an EQ level matched Focal/XS test some day, but it's difficult to arrange.

So yeah, EQ REALLY changes the low/sub bass impact especially on this headphone. I can't imagine a smaller diaphragm like the HE-6 could compete. I know my Sundara has a bit more punch/snap to it from what I perceive over the XS (the driver is also closer to the ear), so I imagine the HE-6 is better here as well.

 

[bagwell359]

Seems like it probably depends a lot on what genres of music you listen to. I like a really wide range of genres I'd say, from softer indie rock to electronic to hip hop. A bass boosted planar with excellent extension like this Edition XS will absolutely shake your head with many hip hop tracks (largely low/sub bass). This headphone just dominates in this category, with very controlled and deeply extended sub bass - it's fantastic. I imagine maybe a Focal would do better in high bass/punch, but I haven't tried them. I'd be curious to do an EQ level matched Focal/XS test some day, but it's difficult to arrange.

So yeah, EQ REALLY changes the low/sub bass impact especially on this headphone. I can't imagine a smaller diaphragm like the HE-6 could compete. I know my Sundara has a bit more punch/snap to it from what I perceive over the XS (the driver is also closer to the ear), so I imagine the HE-6 is better here as well.

I just can't see an increase in volume as the same as impact - because it's not.

I have the HE-6SE v1, HEX v2, and the HE-500. The first two un-'SQ'd probably go deeper than the XS, and the 3rd is close. I do run the HEX with two shelfs and I've tried all sorts of things to mimic the HE-6 OG and it can't be done. I have a killer amp too.

For the type of bass i'm talking about see roto tom heavy art rock, dynamic classical after 1875, and quite a bit of jazz/fusion.

Also the under 100 Hz settings so popular now (Crinicle for instance) are rubbish - based on transient taste and listening rooms of no distinction.