[MegaMushroom]

I keep hearing on how wonderful vinyl is compared to Cd's and to be honest I'd like to take a stab at it.  Unfortunately for me I have no real clue on where to start beyond only having a budget of about 150-200 dollars.  I'm not even sure what companies to look at in this search.  Based of reading reviews on amazon I've narrow my choices down to:
-Pioneer PL990- Belt driven, built-in pre-amp... seems decent.
-Pyle PLTTB1- Belt driven, does not have a pre-amp... Not sure if I'm going to need a pre-amp.  Shouldn't I be able to just plug this into my headphone amp or receiver in and play, or do I need to get a dedicated pre-amp?  Not sure about the quality. 
- As for Sony and Audio-Technica I'm honestly clueless about.  
 
I goal here to to just find a decent record player to start out with, and later upgrade.  I would like to keep costs down if possible, but if those extra dollars will truly be worth it I'll consider buying up. 
 
EDIT: Hope I posted this in the right place.... 

 

[shipsupt]

Have you considered buying a used TT?  There are some great deals out there on vintage tables that sound great!
 
 

 

[MegaMushroom]

I actually have, but I am a bit worried about getting something that'll be broken beyond my very limited knowledge. Also Birmingham isn't exactly a mecca for audiophiles.  On a side note.... Are Sony and Audio-technica players the same thing?  They look like clones to me. 

 

[shipsupt]

I'm surprised some of the real TT experts haven't popped in on this one!  I am VERY much a beginner in getting back into Vinyl.
 
I'll offer what I can and hope that some of the guys with better experience chime in... 
 
In looking for something entry level I've been advised to stay away from belt drive unless you are able to get something a little more expensive at the sort of audiophile entry level, which is going to run above your $200 budget.
 
I've also been advised to stay away from USB... which makes sense to me.  For the cheap price can one expect much of a digital to analog conversion? 
 
To the best of my knowledge Sony and Audio-Techinca are not the same, but I think they go after the "look" of the legendary Technics SL-1200 which makes them all look a lot alike.  Not sure on this, just my guess...  I've not heard much good about Sony's latest offerings, but they had some nice tables back in the 70's.
 
I'd still say to consider looking vintage if you want to stick to that budget.  You don't need to find an "audiophile" turn table.  Plenty of sort of standard hi-fi players from the mid to late 70's were really made well and are pretty readily available.  In fact, I just took a look at Craigslist for Birmingham and there is a nice Technics SL-1200M3D for sale for $200 right now.  You might need to get a new cartridge for it, but it would be a great starter table.  Pretty indestructible table, so if its runs now, it will run fine for a long time.
 
If you're wanting to stick with new and can't bump up that budget I'd check out the Denon DP-29F which runs around $150 and check in with someone like Todd at TTVJ about the Music Hall USB table he carries that runs about $250 to see if it's worth considering (seems to go against the recommendations I've heard about USB, but Music Hall has some decent tables further up their lineup, so maybe?).
 
 
 
 
 
 

 

[sml1226]

You need a phono preamp. Cartridges generally put out a few mV and receiver/preamp inputs are generally rated no lower than a few hundred mV. On top of that voltage mismatch, you lack an RIAA equalization curve in your headphone amp or receiver (unless you have a Phono in, in which case you have a phono preamp). The curve returns the record's sound to the accurate sound that was altered to get the song to cut easily and reliably on a record.

Second, I was in the same situation as you earlier this summer and was told a few good things about older TTs, but not much about newer ones until you hit $300 to $400. I was recommended belt drive all the way as it gets motor vibrations further from the platter itself. Standard mount tonearms and headshells make finding carts easier. There are some nice P mount carts out there, but they're not as easy to find. If you get an older one, you're going to need a new cartridge most likely, changing your belt isn't a bad idea, and hopefully your motor is in good condition.

I've heard good and bad things about Pro-Ject (bad reviews could be improper setup as the complaints about the Ortofon OM-5e are nonexistent with my RP1 using the same cart) and I love my Rega. Those are some of the more easily accessible "audiophile" grade tables. Both will be out of your budget though. The RP1 retails at $445 (well out of budget) but they can be found lightly used quite a bit cheaper (I got mine for $320 before shipping).

I'd recommend getting something a bit better than you think you'll want or need from the start. It's pretty easy to outclass your table and hear no improvement if you change carts or something significant on something that was a poor table to begin with. If you have one like mine (OM-5e is a pretty cheap cart if you look at much of anything else), upgrading the cart can help it a lot. The problem with that is, if you rarely listen and never do upgrade it, you'll probably find it hard to justify your purchase. If you do listen frequently and want to upgrade but don't feel like you need a complete table upgrade, carts, mats, etc. can be upgraded on a good table to make it better.

 

[NA Blur]

I am also looking to get back into Vinyl.  Hoping to run Pro-Ject Debut iii into my m903, but I am guessing I would need to use the m903 as a pre and run the outs into another amp.  This makes the process much more involved than I wanted it to be.
 
Anyone know if I could go TT to m903 and use the headphone amp as the final amp stage?  Of course I would be listening via headphone at this point.

 

[mythless]

I would personally recommend getting a Japanese made Direct Driver turntable of the 70s.  They are great performers and are easy to set up, mostly plug and play if they were taken care of.  Take a look around at your local listings to see what's available.

 

[MegaMushroom]

Alright... Looks like I'll be running around yard sales in the near future. BUT... I am looking for a nice basic table to simply start out with since I will most likely be upgrading to something much much better in the near future.  My choices really boil down to a) cheap (Pyle PLTTB1), b) at the budget limit (A-T ATLP120).  Unfortunately I won't have too much of a choice since this is supposed to be a "birthday present" from my parent. (They're still confused by this audiophilia phase I'm going through.)  I apologize in advance if I'm sounding a bit like a noob. 
 

 

[sml1226]

The complete lack of info on the cart for the Pyle make me think it is utter trash (the cart, not necessarily the TT as a whole) and if you went with that, necessary of an upgrade soon if not immediately.

The AT PL120 was a pretty cool TT with the option for Line level or unaltered output, but the LP120 is kind of a step backwards moving to USB and removing the switch. It still looks like a good table for the price, just avoid the USB as that's kind of defeating the point of going analog here. AT carts are actually not bad, they're not going to blow you away, but they're good for what they are.

But if you're set on a direct drive one like that, why not look around for the real thing... used. I constantly see used Technics SL1200 on Craigslist anymore (they were nonexistent when I was looking for one though...). When they're willing to sell a single one (a lot of people buy in pairs for DJing) they can get pretty cheap.

NA Blur- If you want to run to headphones, you can use that as your final amp, but you do still need a phono preamp to use the RIAA curve, and get the signal to a level that the headphone amp/preamp can handle.

 

[MegaMushroom]

Quote:

The complete lack of info on the cart for the Pyle make me think it is utter trash (the cart, not necessarily the TT as a whole) and if you went with that, necessary of an upgrade soon if not immediately.

The AT PL120 was a pretty cool TT with the option for Line level or unaltered output, but the LP120 is kind of a step backwards moving to USB and removing the switch. It still looks like a good table for the price, just avoid the USB as that's kind of defeating the point of going analog here. AT carts are actually not bad, they're not going to blow you away, but they're good for what they are.

But if you're set on a direct drive one like that, why not look around for the real thing... used. I constantly see used Technics SL1200 on Craigslist anymore (they were nonexistent when I was looking for one though...). When they're willing to sell a single one (a lot of people buy in pairs for DJing) they can get pretty cheap.

NA Blur- If you want to run to headphones, you can use that as your final amp, but you do still need a phono preamp to use the RIAA curve, and get the signal to a level that the headphone amp/preamp can handle.

 
Thanks for the advice.  I will keep this mind.  I don't know why but the A-T tables are actually cheaper with the USB, granted I am willing to pay up a bit for the real deal.  Otherwise the Pyle doesn't seem to terrible since I can upgrade while still keeping under my budget.  I'm not really set on direct drive or belt, but direct drive does sound easier to maintain.  Also... I'll be looking into the used table you talked about.  Thanks. 
 
EDIT: If I do get the audio technica will I need a phono preamp, or will the onboard be good enough? 

 

[Uncle Erik]

Do not get a cheap new turntable. Those are garbage and liable to break at any time. They're not worth having.

Get a vintage one. Refurbishing one is not that difficult or expensive. Anyone can do it and they do not require special tools or skills. Get the manual off Vinyl Engine and set it up correctly. They're much better than those awful plastic USB garbage decks.

 

[sml1226]

Do not get a cheap new turntable. Those are garbage and liable to break at any time. They're not worth having.

Get a vintage one. Refurbishing one is not that difficult or expensive. Anyone can do it and they do not require special tools or skills. Get the manual off Vinyl Engine and set it up correctly. They're much better than those awful plastic USB garbage decks.

I was wondering if you'd chime in here. I think you said something about avoiding cheap new ones to me back when I was looking, which eventually led to a more expensive new one. Thanks for pointing out a place to actually look when repairing. Agon, Retail, and CL were the only places I could manage to think of for anything TT related that isn't way out of his range, and there are very few not needing repair in that range on Agon.

The problem with getting an old one though, is the potential failure of the motor. They're not exactly hard to replace, but finding a proper replacement for your old table might not be the easiest thing.

Carts will always be one of the parts being replaced, you aren't avoiding that completely by buying new.
Platters can get expensive, but that should not really need replaced normally.
Tonearms can get expensive, they can also be fairly cheap, so you have options if you need a new one for some reason.
Dust covers aren't even really necessary if you don't have one.
Mats are really up to the listener, not in whether or not to have them (unless the platter is made not to use them), but what kind and how much they want to spend on them.

So if you can find an older one in good condition, go for it. If you can find one needing repair and thing you're up to it, that would probably be a simple fix as well.I still think you could probably find a SL1200 around your price range if you want a good DJ styled one. You can commonly find a Pro-Ject Debut III for $300 on Agon if you can manage to expand your budget that far and want something newer. Other than that, keep an eye out for used ones.

 

[MegaMushroom]

I see that I won't be able to cheap out even on a starter TT...  Let's assume a higher budget.  Say about 400 dollars for both a pre-amp and table.  For the time being let's assume a new table like the Pro-ject Debut III to start out with.  What kind of pre-amp should I be looking at?  Keep in mind that it would have to cost about 30-50 dollars...  
 
Otherwise I'll follow Erik's advice and just start looking around for a good used table, and pre-amp.
 
EDIT:  When/If I do start looking for a used turntable... What should I be looking for?  I understand that Technics is a good brand to look for in terms of used, but is there anything I should avoid like a warm patch of water at the local pool?  At this point I guess I'll be looking for a direct drive over a belt driven.  Unless there is some pressing reason on why I should look for one over the other? 

 

[milosolo]

To me vinyl sounds so much more life like than the best HD digital does but then I am old. The Audio-Technica AT-LP120 has analog and USB outs including cart and phono-amp for $300. It's pretty basic but you can even play your $200 Beatles albums backwards on it. That gives you $100 for your cables to stay within your budget. Easy to upgrade this headshell and cart. Good bang for the buck. Be wary because vinyl can be a real expensive can of worms if you are not careful. Save some money for records.

 

[Audioexcels]

I don't think it's honestly possible for vinyl to sound as good as cd if the cd is being played through a superior setup.  If we are talking a $50 cdp vs. a $50 turntable w/say, a decent enough phonne stage, then thev vinyl could sound better. All this said, vinyl sounds better on a whole,  but everything is in the recording, meaning, if you have a cd with incredible fidelity vs. the  vinyl  version, there's nothing that  will change the fact that the recording is superior on the one vs. the other.
 
There's really some excelllent decks out there on the cheap and if you know anything about cartridges, there's some sleepers that will play with the very best...but...again...phone stage is awefully difficult to find cheap/good.  When I had and when I do have another TT setup, it will be a modest priced deck w/cheap sleeper cartridge, andr reference level phono stage.