[John In Cali]

So when i listen to music and think about soundstage i just always thought it was the position of the sounds inside my head. Reading a bunch of things here I've realized that soundstage is actually supposed to sound like instruments outside my head in different places. The only time ive had that experience was with binaural recordings, they do trick my brain into thinking the sound is coming from somewhere besides a driver next to my ear. But when listening to normal stereo recordings my brain just registers music as either left, right or in the center of my head(vocals). Speakers don't help much either, a stereo setup just sounds like its coming from the speakers although i can position instruments in between the speakers sometimes. 7.1 surround just sounds like the sounds a coming from the 7 different speakers. Although the speaker and headphones ive listened to aren't the greatest for soundstage, i have listened to my uncles klipsch setup that him and a few audio-industry people spent a good amount of time getting setup for proper imaging, did nothing for me. Ive listened to K501, k701, dt880, dt990, HD600, 650, LCD-2, Lcd-3, and Stax 009(not to mention the headphones in my sig). And none of them did anything for me as far as soundstage goes.
I also have no clue what im asking here.

 

[Head Injury]

The effects are exaggerated as far as I'm concerned. I don't get the sense of great distance except for on a few tracks. Usually it's just an arm's length away at best. That's why imaging is more important to me, because I can get the sense of instruments coming from different directions.
 
It helps a little if you close your eyes, though. Cut the visual cues out and your brain relies more on your ears to judge distances.

 

[maverickronin]

If you don't "get" it with even a properly set up speaker system then you might not ever get it with anything.
 
Something like Isone might be worth a try anyway.  I use it and love it.  Here's a thread.

 

[John In Cali]

The effects are exaggerated as far as I'm concerned. I don't get the sense of great distance except for on a few tracks. Usually it's just an arm's length away at best. That's why imaging is more important to me, because I can get the sense of instruments coming from different directions.

It helps a little if you close your eyes, though. Cut the visual cues out and your brain relies more on your ears to judge distances.

I close my eyes but they still remain inside my head, not even an inch out.

 

[John In Cali]

If you don't "get" it with even a properly set up speaker system then you might not ever get it with anything.

Something like Isone might be worth a try anyway.  I use it and love it.  Here's a thread.

Thanks ill try it out.

 

[Eee Pee]

Quote:

Speakers don't help much either, a stereo setup just sounds like its coming from the speakers although i can position instruments in between the speakers sometimes.

That's the soundstage.  Speaker placement and quality of pieces used, and of course a little imagination and you should be able to fill about a third of the room with this "soundstage".  Ideally the walls and speakers disappear and you have a very wide and very deep soundstage, but just to have some mental images of musicians floating around in the room is pretty much all there is to it.
 
Headphones are tough for me, but I can get there.  Typically after some beers and I'm close to sleepy land when my mind is wide open and relaxed.
 
It also very much depends on the music.

 

[John In Cali]

If you don't "get" it with even a properly set up speaker system then you might not ever get it with anything.

Something like Isone might be worth a try anyway.  I use it and love it.  Here's a thread.

Alright i got the demo and started using it, it works great, the sounds are still in my head but they have more places in my head that they can be, is the best way i can explain it.
Edit: Oh wow, just messed around with more settings, and wow it did it, Lykke Li's voice is beyond the boundries of my head, instruments coming from different angles, this is great. Im going to have to buy it and a more convenient way to use it.

 

[maverickronin]

Quote:

Alright i got the demo and started using it, it works great, the sounds are still in my head but they have more places in my head that they can be, is the best way i can explain it.
Edit: Oh wow, just messed around with more settings, and wow it did it, Lykke Li's voice is beyond the boundries of my head, instruments coming from different angles, this is great. Im going to have to buy it and a more convenient way to use it.

If you don't have a properly set up pair of speakers to compare against it might take a while to get everything dialed in.  You can get the manual from the site too and its worth reading to help you get it working.

 

[Willakan]

I don't have particularly good directional hearing, but much of what you hear about soundstage is gross exaggeration. Headphones are not going to sound like speakers and vice versa, unless you feed the former special material (binaural tracks and the like) or do some fancy DSPing, as above.

 

[John In Cali]

I don't have particularly good directional hearing, but much of what you hear about soundstage is gross exaggeration. Headphones are not going to sound like speakers and vice versa, unless you feed the former special material (binaural tracks and the like) or do some fancy DSPing, as above.

I think part of the reason soundstage doesn't work for me is that my directional hearing is too good, ive seen shows about blind people and how they can walk around without hitting anything any basically see by clicking with their mouths and listening to echos. I wont say i can do that totally but i can peice together the shape of a room and major objects by clapping, clicking would just be weird unless i was blind(but i almost am sadly).

 

[RexAeterna]

that's odd cause i never felt Isone did anything good for me. made imaging artificial on both my 240DF and Sextetts LP i tried it on at the time. also i never had issues with my speakers imaging either. i get a full 360 degree soundstage and imaging from them. no special DSP effects or nothing. just plain analog stereo since all i use is my vintage receivers.

 

[John In Cali]

Quote:

that's odd cause i never felt Isone did anything good for me. made imaging artificial on both my 240DF and Sextetts LP i tried it on at the time. also i never had issues with my speakers imaging either. i get a full 360 degree soundstage and imaging from them. no special DSP effects or nothing. just plain analog stereo since all i use is my vintage receivers.

Well i can tell it is artificial, but i'd rather have artificial then nothing at all, music just get so much better when it is in front of you, really hard to focus on if it is inside your head.  When it is inside my head i forget about it and think about other things.
I don't know if this sounds insane or i just got finished watching "Twelve Monkeys" but i think it is a little bit of both.

 

[RexAeterna]

Well i can tell it is artificial, but i'd rather have artificial then nothing at all, music just get so much better when it is in front of you, really hard to focus on if it is inside your head.  When it is inside my head i forget about it and think about other things.
I don't know if this sounds insane or i just got finished watching "Twelve Monkeys" but i think it is a little bit of both.

true. thing is was the room your uncle in treated at all? was this a HT set-up or stereo? reason i ask cause sometimes reflections in the room depending on size will cause cancellations on axis ruining the imaging if the tweeters themselves have a good wide dispersion pattern on and off axis. that's why lot of times when people mention stereo they always get a misconception that sound only comes from left and right and everything should be centered in stereo. not true since even in stereo you are capable of a full 360 degree soundstage and imaging from only 2 speakers in stereo. HT harder to handle cause usually more boxes(speakers) will ruin room acoustics as well, messing up center imaging.

 

[maverickronin]

Quote:

that's odd cause i never felt Isone did anything good for me. made imaging artificial on both my 240DF and Sextetts LP i tried it on at the time. also i never had issues with my speakers imaging either. i get a full 360 degree soundstage and imaging from them. no special DSP effects or nothing. just plain analog stereo since all i use is my vintage receivers.

Did you try it with you T50RPs?  Isone works great with mine, though it work pretty well with everything I've tried, though that doesn't include those AKGs.
 
Its also worth noting that speakers don't need DSPs because pretty much all music is mixed for speakers in the first place.  If you're listening to a rare binaural recording you'd obviously turn off the headphones DSP and you'd also need some other kind of DSP if you wanted a binaural recording to sound right on regular speakers.
 
I can't listen to most stereo recordings over headphones for very long without at least some basic crossfeed.  Some people say that sort of thing isn't needed at all but I have two words for them.  "Hard pan"

 

[John In Cali]

 
Quote:

true. thing is was the room your uncle in treated at all? was this a HT set-up or stereo? reason i ask cause sometimes reflections in the room depending on size will cause cancellations on axis ruining the imaging if the tweeters themselves have a good wide dispersion pattern on and off axis. that's why lot of times when people mention stereo they always get a misconception that sound only comes from left and right and everything should be centered in stereo. not true since even in stereo you are capable of a full 360 degree soundstage and imaging from only 2 speakers in stereo. HT harder to handle cause usually more boxes(speakers) will ruin room acoustics as well, messing up center imaging.

It was, he was an active audiophile back in his day and like i said, had a bunch of his audiophile friends set it up with him, i wont say the room was entirely covered but most of it was.