[jordannn15]

I need help finding good over-ear headphones (open or closed), an amp, and a dac for at home use from my laptop, budget is ~$700. I listen to hip-hop/rap, rock, r&b, and some others but no classical, country, or jazz. I would prefer velour or something else over pleather as my ears tend to get very hot with pleather pads. I don't know what else to include to ask for what I want so just ask questions if needed please.

Comfort and weight are a big thing for me, they should be as I said velour or another comfortable pad and should be decently light.

 

[superjawes]

Budget? Makes a pretty big difference in what we can recommend. Nice work ninja-ing the budget in!

If you want comfort and vlour pads, that sounds a lot like my Sennheiser HD600. I think they'll do fine for your genres, as I feel that they sound great with anything, but I you might prefer something with a little more character.

For amps, I really like my Schiit Valhalla with them. My Magni still sounds okay, but it can sometimes feel harsh, so you might be better off checking out the Vali. $400 for the 600's, $120 for Vali, and $100 for a Modi totals about $620 before shipping.

 

[PurpleAngel]

Audio Technica ATH-W1000X headphones and a Schiit stack (Modi/Magni) DAC/amp.
(the W1000X do not cause a heat issue with me)
 
Or get the open ATH-AD2000X headphones.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

AKG K702 - $220-ish
AudioGD NFB-11 - $315+shipping
 
You still have enough left that you can set aside and add to later for a good IEM that you can take everywhere. Or buy music with it.

 

[jordannn15]

Budget? Makes a pretty big difference in what we can recommend. Nice work ninja-ing the budget in!



If you want comfort and vlour pads, that sounds a lot like my Sennheiser HD600. I think they'll do fine for your genres, as I feel that they sound great with anything, but I you might prefer something with a little more character.



For amps, I really like my Schiit Valhalla with them. My Magni still sounds okay, but it can sometimes feel harsh, so you might be better off checking out the Vali. $400 for the 600's, $120 for Vali, and $100 for a Modi totals about $620 before shipping.

 


Haha, I got done writing and submitted it and was like wow I can't believe I forgot the budget, that might be important. I was also thinking about the HD600/650's. I can get the HD600/650's used - like new, basically just open box items for $320/$365 shipped. If I went with the Valhalla would I need something better than a modi for the dac?

Audio Technica ATH-W1000X headphones and a Schiit stack (Modi/Magni) DAC/amp.


(the W1000X do not cause a heat issue with me)


 


Or get the open ATH-AD2000X headphones.

 


Thanks for the suggestion but I hate the 3d wing support on these headphones, although I have not actually worn them they just don't seem like I would like the comfort.

AKG K702 - $220-ish


AudioGD NFB-11 - $315+shipping


 


You still have enough left that you can set aside and add to later for a good IEM that you can take everywhere. Or buy music with it.

 


I will look into these headphones, as for the audiogd nfb-11 I have never heard or seen anyone recommend this amp/dac before. Is there a reason for this or...? Also do you have it? Could you give some feedback on how it sounds with whatever headphones you have if so? Thanks.


I would like the headphones to be a bit bassy and have good impact but not overpowering as to bleed into the other frequencies.

 

[superjawes]

Haha, I got done writing and submitted it and was like wow I can't believe I forgot the budget, that might be important. I was also thinking about the HD600/650's. I can get the HD600/650's used - like new, basically just open box items for $320/$365 shipped. If I went with the Valhalla would I need something better than a modi for the dac?

I'm running my Valhalla off an optical Modi, so of course you can, too!

I suppose a Bifrost (especially an Uberfrost) might sound "better", but I doubt you would be dissapointed pairing Modi with Valhalla. For full disclosure, I do believe that my Valhalla--while excellent--is overkill for my current headphones, which is why I suggested Vali. My wife has a thing for Norse themed stuff, and she (we) fell in love with the black finish back when Schiit had them, so she bought it for me. It's a great amp; I just don't want you to think that you HAVE to have one with the HD600/650.

Also, I tried the 650s, and they sounded great, but I couldn't really tell the difference between them and the 600s, and I know I'm not alone in that.

For another headphone suggestion, I think the HE-400i might fit your needs. That would pair very well with a Magni/Modi. I have not personally tried them, but compared to the HD600/650, I have heard that they are faster and have better bass response. I also hear this about the HE-400, but those are heavier, and do not have the 400i's upgraded headband.

For amp suggestions, be sure to check out the O2+ODAC, too. This pair also seems to be very popular (like Magni/Modi), and seems to get the "this may be the only thing you ever need" stamp of approval, too.

 

[jordannn15]

Okay, I will most likely go with the vali + modi then because I'm just getting into this hobby. I was looking into the he-400(i)'s also a little while ago and was kind of disappointed by reviews. Everyone says the he-400's have great bass and good mids and highs along with soundstage but the he-400i's have said to not have the bass response of the he-400's but are better in every other aspect. I definitely don't want the he-400's because of how heavy they are but the he-400i are definitely an option just need to see more reviews and comparisons against the hd600/650's. The o2+odac is ~$100 more than the vali+modi on amazon haven't checked anywhere else yet but if they are comparable then I will just go with the cheaper option. Which one (hd600/650) would you suggest if I wanted a warmer bassier sound?

 

[ProtegeManiac]

 
...as for the audiogd nfb-11 I have never heard or seen anyone recommend this amp/dac before. Is there a reason for this or...? 

 
Ummm...you haven't been reading enough around this forum? Scroll up to the search box and type in NFB-11. Search for threads first and you'll see how many will come up; then search for posts, and you'll see how many "recommend me headphone and/or DAC/HPamp under $xxx" threads have the NFB-11 (and the NFB-12) coming up in the responses.
 

 
Also do you have it? Could you give some feedback on how it sounds with whatever headphones you have if so? Thanks.

 

I've tried the NFB-12 and the original NFB-11 on the K701, HD600 and HD650. I'll call the sound of the NFB's "unremarkable" but you have to understand that to someone like me that's a good thing - the amp is for the most part a "wire with gain" and the DAC in the units I tried had the Earth op-amps (if they could even be switched out; not sure about those older units). It just means it doesn't have any audible distortion in the signal at my listening level, has good dynamic range which doesn't distort on peaks either.*


*Unlike for example the NuForce Icon HDP, whose bass drum hits sound more like a "thWHAck" than a solid "THUD!" which indicates some kind of problem with how it reins in the driver, or this CMOY I once had that makes the HD600 sound dark with bloated bass.
 

I would like the headphones to be a bit bassy and have good impact but not overpowering as to bleed into the other frequencies.

 

That depends on the headphone more than the amp; the latter's job is only to provide clean power for a headphone with enhanced bass to deliver that without distortion. That said I found the K701 and HD600 to be very similar tonally given a a headphone that can drive the AKG well enough (it will be very difficult to find an amp that will do well on the AKG and then fail miserably on the HD600), such as those NFBs and Meier amplifiers.
 
I didn't get to try the Q701 on the NFBs, but I did try them on my Meier amp and the Fiio X3 vs the HD600, and with either the Q701 were noticeably bassier by my ears. The HD600 shows a graph with a huge bass plateau but if you have fairly new earpads on these the tonality is closer to the HD800 than what you would usually read about them.* That or the nearly wide open back of the HD600 just let too much sound leak in and out, but in any case even if it did have a bit more bass in a quiet room (not that much more) it doesn't mean the Q701 would have less.
 
Here's a comparison chart of the Q701 and HD600. Aside from the tiny bit of bass boost on the AKG's, which otherwise mirrors the Sennheiser's curve, that 2khz bump followed by a valley lading to 5khz can give the impression of a warmer sound due to the midrange boost as well as the drop in the upper midrange. If however you are listening to anything with a lot of hard-hitting cymbals like power and prog metal that peak at 5khz can be problem, but nothing a little bit of EQ-ing (provided you can access the right parameters) can't fix.

 




*That is likely due to owners using older pads, or the numerous impressions gathered during meets, where the owners aren't likely to slap on a brand new pair of earpads just for other people (just ones with reasonable wear on them) while some would have tried them on after many others, by which point the earpads are squished and the bass is bloated

 

[jordannn15]

Looked around for reviews about the akg k701, k702, and q701 and people were saying they were one of the best sub $1000 for genres like classical jazz, etc.? I'm leaning toward the hd600/650's as of right now because people were saying the akg's were hard to amp with current being high or weird or something. Also, the shape of the sennheisers fit my ears very well and reviews were saying the akg's created hotspots because of the bumps on the headband. Are these people wrong or?

 

[jordannn15]

I have ordered the HD600 + schiit vali + schiit modi as I feel these will satisfy my sound preference and comfort well. Everything should be here by Saturday or next Monday, maybe next Tuesday but that would be the latest. I will update with my impressions when I get them. Thanks for the suggestions and help thus far!

 

[superjawes]

Well I think you'll be quite happy with that setup...

Now just to make sure you have this information in the future (I saw concerns about the AKG's), picking the right amp comes down to two specs. The first is impedance. Now you want a good damping factor (headphone impedance divided by amp output impedance, and a good value is 8 or higher), but what this really tells you is whether or not you want a lot of voltage to drive your headphones. The other spec to look at is efficiency. Low efficiency drivers are harder to get good volume out, but you remedy that with an amp that can provide more raw power (or current).

Just remember: you need to account for both when choosing an amplifier for your headphones.

In general, tube amps have better voltage performance than solid state (SS) ones (SS means transistors), but solid state amps tend to have more output power. Compare Vali and Magni. Magni has higher peak power and can purportedly drive just about anything to "ear bleeding" levels. Vali has a lower peak power, but notice the power values at higher impedance. Unlike Magni, the power doesn't drop off as dramatically at 300 and 600 Ohms. Compare Asgard and Valhalla and you see something similar.

I don't have the AKG specs in front of me, but assuming their impedances are under 100 Ohms, the concerns about driving them are related to low efficiency. You would just want to overcome that with an amp with a lot of power (so at the Schiit low end, Magni would likely be better than Vali).

Happy listening!

 

[ProtegeManiac]

  Looked around for reviews about the akg k701, k702, and q701 and people were saying they were one of the best sub $1000 for genres like classical jazz, etc.? I'm leaning toward the hd600/650's as of right now because people were saying the akg's were hard to amp with current being high or weird or something. Also, the shape of the sennheisers fit my ears very well and reviews were saying the akg's created hotspots because of the bumps on the headband. Are these people wrong or?

 
The AKGs need a lot of current but you don't need to look that far for them to sound good - any decent amp, mainly from Meier, AudioGD, and Schiit do well enough especially for the money. If anything, the Burson Soloist does a fantastic job much better than anything else I've tried, but they also cost several times more than the others, which aren't really that far behind it for the money.
 
As much as I myself use the HD600s the thing is it's still $399 new, but you can get the AKGs along with a decent amp-DAC for around $500.

 

[jordannn15]

Well I think you'll be quite happy with that setup...

Now just to make sure you have this information in the future (I saw concerns about the AKG's), picking the right amp comes down to two specs. The first is impedance. Now you want a good damping factor (headphone impedance divided by amp output impedance, and a good value is 8 or higher), but what this really tells you is whether or not you want a lot of voltage to drive your headphones. The other spec to look at is efficiency. Low efficiency drivers are harder to get good volume out, but you remedy that with an amp that can provide more raw power (or current).

Just remember: you need to account for both when choosing an amplifier for your headphones.

In general, tube amps have better voltage performance than solid state (SS) ones (SS means transistors), but solid state amps tend to have more output power. Compare Vali and Magni. Magni has higher peak power and can purportedly drive just about anything to "ear bleeding" levels. Vali has a lower peak power, but notice the power values at higher impedance. Unlike Magni, the power doesn't drop off as dramatically at 300 and 600 Ohms. Compare Asgard and Valhalla and you see something similar.

I don't have the AKG specs in front of me, but assuming their impedances are under 100 Ohms, the concerns about driving them are related to low efficiency. You would just want to overcome that with an amp with a lot of power (so at the Schiit low end, Magni would likely be better than Vali).

Happy listening!

Wow! I can't believe no one has explained this to me yet haha. Thank your for the very noteworthy information, I don't know why I never looked this up before. I guess because I just rely on people in these forums to help and being a noobie to the audiophile world I just take people on there word.

What do people mean when they say the bass is fast or slow? Also, what kind of files do you use for your music? I usually just buy off of itunes but now that I am getting into this I am thinking about buying cds and then ripping them in ALAC on itunes. Should I do this or do it some other way?

 

[jordannn15]

The AKGs need a lot of current but you don't need to look that far for them to sound good - any decent amp, mainly from Meier, AudioGD, and Schiit do well enough especially for the money. If anything, the Burson Soloist does a fantastic job much better than anything else I've tried, but they also cost several times more than the others, which aren't really that far behind it for the money.

As much as I myself use the HD600s the thing is it's still $399 new, but you can get the AKGs along with a decent amp-DAC for around $500.

I got kind of lucky and the setup that I ordered is only costing me ~$560 shipped . The hd600 ared used like new so just an open box item and everything else is brand new. I think I got a pretty decent deal but we'll have to see when the headphones get here.

 

[superjawes]

Wow! I can't believe no one has explained this to me yet haha. Thank your for the very noteworthy information, I don't know why I never looked this up before. I guess because I just rely on people in these forums to help and being a noobie to the audiophile world I just take people on there word.

What do people mean when they say the bass is fast or slow? Also, what kind of files do you use for your music? I usually just buy off of itunes but now that I am getting into this I am thinking about buying cds and then ripping them in ALAC on itunes. Should I do this or do it some other way?

Well a lot of us (here on forums) generally just know this already and probably forget that everyone has to start somewhere, lol

As for fast/slow, a transducer (headphone/speaker) is a mechanical system, which can be simplified to a mass-spring-dampener for analysis. I'll spare you the intro to controls theory, but basically when you apply a force to this system, it will resist movement (dampener) and try to pull itself back to rest (spring). How strong these values are will determine how quickly the system returns to a resting state. In this case, the force we're adding is coming from your electrical signal. Obviously, anything you put into the system is going to have a transient response, and the system's response changes how the music sounds.*

That might still be more detail than you need, but at least having an idea of where it comes from should help you visualize things.

For music files, I don't do anything too fancy. Most of what I listen to these days is coming from Spotify.