[5genez]

   
Right now Id' be torn between my headphones and my speakers.  I think I like the mids better in the HD650's, but the RBH speakers and the sub provide much better highs and bass,  It's a tough choice.
 

 
You are blocking the midrange with all those monitors sitting between you and the speakers. You have a reversal set up of the concept of nearfield listening.   The bass will get through because its not directional, and the tweeters look high enough to peer over your monitors.  But, the midrange?    You're blocking it from reaching you.

 

[Robert Wortman]

Interesting thread.  As others have said headphone listening and speaker listening are two different things.  The headphone image is all between your ears and the bass only pounds your head, not your body..  This can sound impressive but not comparable to a stereo soundstage outside your head and completely not comparable, sorry for adding this complication, to well recorded and played back 5.1 surround.  Not as much to listen to, but I like some of what I have.  I think headphones are better bang for the buck up to a certain point.  That point may be different for different ears.   I don't really listen to headphones except for specific purposes or when travelling.  I can't haul my speakers around with me to set up in a hotel room.  When I am mixing sound live I need the headphones to isolate performers from the mix to check stuff out.  When doing a bit of amateur mixing at home, I need the phones to check to see if I overcooked the bass because my LSR305's don't go that low.  I have small systems all over the house and garage but my main stuff is this:
 
desktop:  Focusrite Scarlett 2i2/ JBL LSR305
 
Den:  Marantz SR6006 (for surround) Schiit Saga (two channel) NAD C275BEE power amp, Yamaha BD A1060 (disc playback, DSD files, streaming via wired ethernet from the JRiver server to the Saga), VPI Scout/Ortofon Rondo Blue/Simaudio Moon LP110,  Front stereo pair, PSB Imagine T2, rear surrounds Imagine Minis, center Imagine Mini C, JBL 12" sub crossed over at 40hz for surround, no sub for stereo listening.  I recently added a Chromecast Audio for streaming Pandora to the Saga so I can have the AVR switched to the cable box to watch sports, while listening to something else.  Sports announcers can grate after a while.
 
I don't have any high end headphones.  I have a pair of Shure SRH840's for checking mixes at home and playing through a first generation Meridian Explorer when on the road.   I have a pair of Shure SRH440's permanently plugged into a Soundcraft Impact mixing console at my church.  They both sound pretty good but I can't compare them to seriously expensive 'phones because I haven't tried any.

 

[Music Alchemist]

  When doing a bit of amateur mixing at home, I need the phones to check to see if I overcooked the bass because my LSR305's don't go that low.

 
...I'm bummed out that I'd have to spend probably twice as much than I did on my speakers (same as yours) to get a subwoofer that can extend to 20 Hz. I looked at cheaper subs and some of them don't even go as deep as the speakers I already have.

 

[theveterans]

...I'm bummed out that I'd have to spend probably twice as much than I did on my speakers (same as yours) to get a subwoofer that can extend to 20 Hz. I looked at cheaper subs and some of them don't even go as deep as the speakers I already have.

Get something like ADAM Subwoofers or preferably SVS 15-18" subs then let your room shake like there's a 7.1 magnitude quake

 

[theveterans]

Get something like ADAM Subwoofers or preferably SVS 15-18" subs then let your room shake like there's a 7.1 magnitude quake

Also get a bass shaker installed in your chair for an even more impressive effect

 

[mattlach]

You are blocking the midrange with all those monitors sitting between you and the speakers. You have a reversal set up of the concept of nearfield listening.   The bass will get through because its not directional, and the tweeters look high enough to peer over your monitors.  But, the midrange?    You're blocking it from reaching you.

I hear you. The stands were just a bit short when I got everything installed. It's something I am going to need to figure out a solution to.

It's not as bad as it looks though. The camera angle and wide angle lens conspire to make it look worse than it is.

Here is a close-up:

As you can see, the moving part of the woofer clears the top of the screen.

Still, I agree, it is too close to be ideal, but in comparing my listening tests before I put them on the stands and as they are installed, I can't tell much if any difference.

 

[Music Alchemist]

Get something like ADAM Subwoofers or preferably SVS 15-18" subs then let your room shake like there's a 7.1 magnitude quake

 
Can you list specific models that extend to 20 Hz and are as affordable as possible?
 
Would that be inaudible to houses next door? I don't want to get noise complaints.
 
I will most likely just wait until I upgrade my speakers before getting a subwoofer, because I don't want to spend more on it than the speakers. (Only paid $250 for these.)

 

[mattlach]

Get something like ADAM Subwoofers or preferably SVS 15-18" subs then let your room shake like there's a 7.1 magnitude quake

 
Those seem awfully big for near field.
 
My comparatively small SVS SB12-NSD (which is a great deal right now as it is discontinued and stock is being slowly sold out) is totally overkill under my desk.   The gain sits at about 15-20%.
 
Now, it's "only" rated down to 23hz, but keep in mind that these rating numbers are usually F3 values, which means, the frequency at which the curve drops 3db below the peak.
 
It does not mean that is suddenly stops and doesn't play anything below that frequency.
 
In near field most subs 12" or larger are total overkill.   You could get one, and just EQ it a bit, since you have all that head room to get the 20hz if you really need it.

 

[Music Alchemist]

 
It looks like all the ones that go that low are $400 and up. The money isn't a problem; it's just that I don't want to spend more than the speakers cost on it.

 

[mattlach]

It looks like all the ones that go that low are $400 and up. The money isn't a problem; it's just that I don't want to spend more than the speakers cost on it.

Yeah, I was turned off by subwoofer price when I first started as well. It seems to just be a fact of audio life. Subs get expensive in a hurry. The SVS SB12-NSD was recommended to me as a decent sub at an unheard of low price of $399 when I bought it.

Subs are almost always going to be your most expensive components in a speaker setup, by a wide margin.

There are some cheaper alternatives you can try though. The best deal in subs seems to be the Dayton Audio SUB-1200 on parts express. It "only" goes down to 25hz in specs, but it can probably be EQ:Ed a bit. I say probably because I have never heard it myself, but a guy I know uses one and he swears by it.

Unfortunately it looks like they just raised the price on it. It used to be $129, with occasional open box specials at $89 (which is just nuts for what you get). Now it appears to sell for $149, which is still a good price for what you get.

Monoprice also sells a low cost 12" sub, but it doesn't appear to go down as deep, so I'd pass on that one.

 

[Music Alchemist]

Yeah, I was turned off by subwoofer price when I first started as well. It seems to just be a fact of audio life. Subs get expensive in a hurry. The SVS SB12-NSD was recommended to me as a decent sub at an unheard of low price of $399 when I bought it.

Subs are almost always going to be your most expensive components in a speaker setup, by a wide margin.

There are some cheaper alternatives you can try though. The best deal in subs seems to be the Dayton Audio SUB-1200 on parts express. It "only" goes down to 25hz in specs, but it can probably be EQ:Ed a bit. I say probably because I have never heard it myself, but a guy I know uses one and he swears by it.

Unfortunately it looks like they just raised the price on it. It used to be $129, with occasional open box specials at $89 (which is just nuts for what you get). Now it appears to sell for $149, which is still a good price for what you get.

Monoprice also sells a low cost 12" sub, but it doesn't appear to go down as deep, so I'd pass on that one.

 
If I spent $2,000 on speakers, that doesn't mean I need to spend more on the subwoofer.
 
I learned about the Monoprice sub here, but yes, it doesn't even extend as low as my speakers:
 
http://thewirecutter.com/reviews/best-budget-subwoofer/
 
That Dayton is cheap enough to be tempting...but it looks like the only output is via speaker cables? I need RCA or XLR outputs.

 

[mattlach]

If I spent $2,000 on speakers, that doesn't mean I need to spend more on the subwoofer.

I learned about the Monoprice sub here, but yes, it doesn't even extend as low as my speakers:

http://thewirecutter.com/reviews/best-budget-subwoofer/

That Dayton is cheap enough to be tempting...but it looks like the only output is via speaker cables? I need RCA or XLR outputs.

Well, as I've said before, the sub is usually the most expensive part. It's fairly normal to spend 2-3x more on your sub than on your speakers and amp combined, to get a similar quality part.

Yeah, that is odd about the Dayton not having RCA outs. Do you really need them though?

I missed the post where you explained your setup and I'm on my phone (waiting at a tire shop) right now, so it's tough to find it.

My Emotiva power amp has RCA's both in and out, so I go "Pre-Amp --> Power Amp --> Sub".

If this isn't an option you can also use RCA Y splitters. It's not as sexy but it sounds the same and how often do you really look at the wires?

On non DSP subs the RCA outs are usually just internal Y splitters anyway. Some fancier models have DSP processed high pass outs with configurable delays and all that stuff, but now we are talking $1000+ subs.

 

[Music Alchemist]

Well, as I've said before, the sub is usually the most expensive part. It's fairly normal to spend 2-3x more on your sub than on your speakers and amp combined, to get a similar quality part.

Yeah, that is odd about the Dayton not having RCA outs. Do you really need them though?

I missed the post where you explained your setup and I'm on my phone (waiting at a tire shop) right now, so it's tough to find it.

My Emotiva power amp has RCA's both in and out, so I go "Pre-Amp --> Power Amp --> Sub".

If this isn't an option you can also use RCA Y splitters. It's not as sexy but it sounds the same and how often do you really look at the wires?

On non DSP subs the RCA outs are usually just internal Y splitters anyway. Some fancier models have DSP processed high pass outs with configurable delays and all that stuff, but now we are talking $1000+ subs.

 
That's usually not true for high-end speaker systems. (Five to seven figures.) The speakers almost always cost many times more than the sub(s).
 
Yes, I need RCA or XLR because I'm using active speakers. (Listed in my signature.)
 
That $400 SVS sub you mentioned does seem more appealing considering it used to be $679. And I could always use it with other speaker systems when I upgrade. I'm just hesitant to spend that much if I could get all the bass I need from something cheaper.

 

[mattlach]

That's usually not true for high-end speaker systems. (Five to seven figures.) The speakers almost always cost many times more than the sub(s).

Yes, I need RCA or XLR because I'm using active speakers. (Listed in my signature.)

That $400 SVS sub you mentioned does seem more appealing considering it used to be $679. And I could always use it with other speaker systems when I upgrade. I'm just hesitant to spend that much if I could get all the bass I need from something cheaper.

Can't say I've ever spent that much on speakers. My personal experience is limited to the mid range.

You know the: "expensive enough that significant others roll their eyes and non-audio folks think I'm crazy, but cheap enough that car-priced audio jewelry owners look down on you." segment.

 

[Music Alchemist]

Can't say I've ever spent that much on speakers. My personal experience is limited to the mid range.

You know the: "expensive enough that significant others roll their eyes and non-audio folks think I'm crazy, but cheap enough that car-priced audio jewelry owners look down on you." segment.

 
I just think your statement should have clarified that you were only referring to speakers under a certain price range, not all speakers.
 
What do you think of this one? Its specs go down to 20 Hz and it's cheap!
 
https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=605999