[Chris J]

Quote:

Man, you guys have me confused again.. In my original post I said I only have a D1 to drive my headphones and will not be able to upgrade an amp till Christmas or later.

 
Enough to make a grown man drink, isn't it!
 
The D1 should be able to drive 250 Ohm DT880s.
 
600 Ohm DT880s will be a stretch, not enough output voltage at 2.0 V rms. That's more power than you might think.
 
The nice thing about 250 Ohm DT880s is that you can also drive them with an OTL tube amp (in the future

), the headphone impedance is not too low.........................

 

[KG Jag]

Quote:

Man, you guys have me confused again.. In my original post I said I only have a D1 to drive my headphones and will not be able to upgrade an amp till Christmas or later.

Don't know anything about the D1, but if it will drive the HE-400 you mentioned in your first post, it will almost certainly drive a 250 Ohm Beyer. You can also read the comment (as was intended when made), that if you are not OK with the Beyer version of 250 Ohms or above--make another selection.

 

[Kajun]

so, the 600ohm is the creme of the crop dt880 but downside you need big power...The 250 is like what 90% as good or?

 

[KG Jag]

Quote:

so, the 600ohm is the creme of the crop dt880 but downside you need big power...The 250 is like what 90% as good or?

That's a reasonably good summary.  Most planars are even more difficult to drive.

 

[Chris J]

Quote:

so, the 600ohm is the creme of the crop dt880 but downside you need big power...The 250 is like what 90% as good or?

 
The 32, 250 and 600 Ohm Beyers all need the same amount of power.
 
The high impedance ones need more voltage, less current.
The low impedance ones need less voltage, more current.
 
Beyer claims the 600 Ohm voice coil is lighter, i.e. less moving mass, therefore more responsive, better transient response.
 
Do you normally listen at a high volume or a low volume?

 

[MalVeauX]

Quote:

so, the 600ohm is the creme of the crop dt880 but downside you need big power...The 250 is like what 90% as good or?

 
Heya,
 
No.
 
The answer to which impedance is best is best for you and it's based on what amplifier you're going to be using. If you properly amplify, the impedance makes minor, if any, difference. Sure, you'll see countless threads about comparing the different impedance of Beyers, for years. And lots of them seem to simply end with 600ohms being the "ones" to have. I have all the Beyers and have played with different impedance versions myself. I ended up with 600ohm myself too, however, it's not because they are inherently better, but because it's a better match for my amplifiers. A low ohm Beyer still needs a lot of power. My 80ohm Beyer needs more volume from the same amp for example, compared to a 250ohm Beyer. Seems weird. But that's because amplifiers have peak ranges that they put loads into, and some are better at lower impedance, some are better at higher impedance. This is why Beyer released different impedance versions of the same headphone with the same driver and same driver housing, so that you could best match your Beyer to your amplifier. People claiming different sound quality from the different impedance versions cannot prove it wasn't simply due to using a different amplifier (signature change) or simply due to the same amplifier handling loads at different impedances differently--which they all do. Unfortunately a lot of psychology is involved here, where 600ohm and high impedance in general for some silly reason has been related to "higher quality" when it's truly not.
 
TL;DR: Get the impedance that is best associated with whatever amplifier you're going to use.
 
Very best,

 

[Chris J]

Quote:

so, the 600ohm is the creme of the crop dt880 but downside you need big power...The 250 is like what 90% as good or?

 
 
BTW thread readers. it is Beyer stating that the 600 Ohm versions are the cream of the crop.
 
Kajun, try doing a search for Zombie X's Beyer comparison thread,  he runs down the differences between DT770, 880 and 990 'phones at all the different impedances.
 
 
Quote:

But that's because amplifiers have peak ranges that they put loads into, and some are better at lower impedance, some are better at higher impedance.

I would argue your rule applies when the amp design is compromised in some way, e.g. the D1 is limited by how much Voltage and current it can output by the power source:  USB connection.
 
A good, high quality, desktop Solid State headphone amp should be able to drive a headphone of virtually any impedance and efficiency.

 

[MalVeauX]

Quote:

ld argue your rule applies when the amp design is compromised in some way, e.g. the D1 is limited by how much Voltage and current it can output by the power source:  USB connection.
 
A good, high quality, desktop Solid State headphone amp should be able to drive a headphone of virtually any impedance and efficiency.

 
Heya,
 
An example of what I mean, is take the Little Dot MK III for example. It has weak output at lower impedance levels, but higher output at higher impedance levels. And aside from just using it's technical specification and rated ability, straight testing shows it's relatively true. It cannot output enough fully power an HE-500 (tried it, was a disaster), but it has lots of power output at higher impedance and makes 600ohm Beyers and 300ohm Sennheisers sound fantastic. Granted, it's a tube amp, not solid state. In general solid state has better options for power output from low to high impedance. But tubes can be problematic there. I bring it up because a lot of the fun things in audiophilia in general, especially when people associate the 600ohm Beyers, they also tend to mention "tube amps" along with it. Yet I wouldn't put a 32ohm Beyer on a tube amp for the reason mentioned. I'm more of a solid state guy myself, as I like the gobs of power they output into low impedance values, like orthos.
 
Very best,

 

[Kajun]

Quote:

 
The 32, 250 and 600 Ohm Beyers all need the same amount of power.
 
The high impedance ones need more voltage, less current.
The low impedance ones need less voltage, more current.
 
Beyer claims the 600 Ohm voice coil is lighter, i.e. less moving mass, therefore more responsive, better transient response.
 
Do you normally listen at a high volume or a low volume?

Man, I listen to most things at a very high level..My Grado's dont seem loud enough for some things.ie movies
Only time I am at low level is when I am winding down at the very end of the night. I wish I could hear and almost feel explosions, gun fire but still be able to hear subtle things on the high range if that makes ANY sense.
 
So, far it seems like for what I want I will need a hadphone and amp upgrade. Man, it was better when I was ignorant listening to $20 headphones lol..now I have this urge to hear it all

 

[Chris J]

Quote:

 
Heya,
 
An example of what I mean, is take the Little Dot MK III for example. It has weak output at lower impedance levels, but higher output at higher impedance levels. And aside from just using it's technical specification and rated ability, straight testing shows it's relatively true. It cannot output enough fully power an HE-500 (tried it, was a disaster), but it has lots of power output at higher impedance and makes 600ohm Beyers and 300ohm Sennheisers sound fantastic. Granted, it's a tube amp, not solid state. In general solid state has better options for power output from low to high impedance. But tubes can be problematic there. I bring it up because a lot of the fun things in audiophilia in general, especially when people associate the 600ohm Beyers, they also tend to mention "tube amps" along with it. Yet I wouldn't put a 32ohm Beyer on a tube amp for the reason mentioned. I'm more of a solid state guy myself, as I like the gobs of power they output into low impedance values, like orthos.
 
Very best,

 
Sure, sounds like we agree.
Tube amps sound great, but a lot of the cheaper ones have a fairly high output impedance, so they cannot output as much power into a low impedance load.
I'm actually a big fan of tubes amps, I have a 336C OTL amp, which does not work very well with my low impedance 'phones, but works great with my 600 Ohm Beyers. 
I have a few little solid state amps that are just fine when you use them with the right 'phone, but like my OTL tube amp, you can't use them for any 'phone.

 
thx, C

 

[Chris J]

Quote:

Man, I listen to most things at a very high level..My Grado's dont seem loud enough for some things.ie movies
Only time I am at low level is when I am winding down at the very end of the night. I wish I could hear and almost feel explosions, gun fire but still be able to hear subtle things on the high range if that makes ANY sense.
 
So, far it seems like for what I want I will need a hadphone and amp upgrade. Man, it was better when I was ignorant listening to $20 headphones lol..now I have this urge to hear it all

 
Oye!
I had to use my 600 Ohm Beyer DT880s s for a few months with a somewhat incompatible amp:  My DT880s don't sound really good thru my Matrix M Stage, there is plenty of volume in that combo, it just doesn't really shine with the DTs.
So, I know how you feel.

 
Edit:
I was at a Head Fi meet a few months ago.
One guy had a D1 on demonstration,, it was surprising how impressed everyone was by the sound of that cute little thing! 

 

[Kajun]

Gotta thank everyone who said get the DT880. They are very comfy, got good bass without sounding like a subwoofer boom. The highs are nice and tight.. I will find out this weekend how they stand up to 8hr wear athon

 

[KG Jag]

Glad to hear that you like them.

 

[Leveler]

Quote:

Gotta thank everyone who said get the DT880. They are very comfy, got good bass without sounding like a subwoofer boom. The highs are nice and tight.. I will find out this weekend how they stand up to 8hr wear athon

Sorry that this late, but which impedance did you end up getting? I ordered the D1 to use mainly as a DAC, I already have perfect (for my taste) portables, and for home use I plan to get DT880s, so which impedance did you got and how they perform with the D1? 
 
Thanks,
Diego

 

[mnarwold]

Why don't you try some easy and reversible mods to your grado's? The sock mod takes like 2 minutes and is cheap. The other thing to do is make sure your headband is properly adjusted so that there is pressure across the entire headband rather than at one point at the top of your head. I use my modded grado 225i for hours at a time with no comfort issues. Actually, when someone tries it out for the first time they mention how comfortable it is as soon as they put it on.