pbirkett
Headphoneus Supremus
- Joined
- Jun 12, 2002
- Posts
- 3,239
- Likes
- 55
I dont know if theres anyone left on this forum who even remembers me, I used to be a regular poster, not so much lately as I was content with my rig. Or at least, I thought I was.
Currently using HD650 and ANT Amber amp, I think it sounds wonderful on acoustic material and very high quality recordings, but for dance, I find it a little difficult to follow basslines in trance if the recording is less than ideal, as the bass doesn't really pop out at you with the 650. It does everything right in a hifi sense of the word, but doesnt really same to make sense for a lot of the trance that I listen to.
The rest of my rig, and what I use most of the time, if I'm being honest is a Squeezebox fronted system, into an MF Digilog DAC (TDA1541 chipset), which naturally as you would expect I also use with my headphone setup.... however I use a Harman Kardon HK6550 and a pair of Rega Ela loudspeakers. Both items are discontinued items of classic hifi that IMO, would take components costing upwards of $2000 each to significantly better to my ears.
When I listen to the HK6550 / Ela combo, with that pacey DAC as source, I cant believe just how good it sounds, a really fast, pacey, punchy, bass driven sound that manages not to be harsh or bright, but manages to give an incredible smooth and crisp note, and I have to say that sadly, as hard as the Amber / HD650 combo tries, it just isnt good enough to compete. Its probably true to say that the headphone rig resolves more detail if you are listening for it, but theres not an awful lot of difference in detail terms, but apart from that the speakers do everything better and makes hard hitting music extremely good fun to listen to, and is far more forgiving of poor recordings.
The amp and speakers really complement each other well, a very full bodied, muscular, dynamic sounding amp feeding some of the most agile transmission line speakers you will ever hear is just a brilliant combo, and it gives a sound I feel is missing from a lot of hifi.
What I am after is that similar match made in headphone heaven. I think I am half way there really, as I suspect the ANT is a punchy little amp, as it has proved with many other headphones I've used it for, I think the HD650 is the restricting link here. I dont doubt that there is a possibility that you could probably power the HD650 up to great things, say if you used balanced into a really high quality amplifier, but I dont have the kind of cash it would take, and frankly, I think why the hell should I spend that much money on something just to try and better a stereo rig that was pretty much assembled for around $500 on ebay and hifi forums.
I dont think my source is the weak point. The TDA1541 is a classic DAC which is often used in classic Philips, Rotel and Naim CD players, among others, and is known for giving a very fast paced, detailed, almost analogue like, so I dont think that needs to be replaced, besides which, it cost me more to buy than the amp and speakers put together, and contains many mods such as uprated caps and suchlike.
Given that source and headphone amp, you would think that it would wake the HD650 up a bit? Well yes it does, quite a lot actually, but still, I feel the HD650 still leave their smothering wake on poor quality recordings, and feel that they sound dull and lifeless. When the recordings are good, they are brilliant headphones. Which is why they will be staying. Give it some acoustic material, such as REM, Dire Straits or other similar music which lets the HD650 shine, it sounds stunning. They are also good with ambient and such like. However, on techno such as john digweed, paul van dyk, armin van buuren etc, it is not so great as I feel the HD650 are not tolerating subpar recordings and leave a dull, flat sound. This is the exact opposite to my speaker rig, which injects really drive and life into even relatively poor recordings. However, for the reason that the 650 are good with better recordings and acoustic / ambient, the 650 will be staying.
What I want is a headphone that can deliver drive and life the same as my speakers can. Serious pace and agility is required, with great clarity.
I was thinking about trying a Grado SR60 or SR80. In the past I have avoided Grado because I personally think their price fixing policy in none-native lands is highway robbery. I dont know how they can justify charging $1400 for an RS-1 in the UK, and even the modest SR60 retails at a rip-off $180 over here. Having said that, I did used to have a pair of SR80s, and drove them straight from my integrated amp at the time (a Rotel) and one thing sticks in my mind about how pacey they were and also how lively and dynamic. Albeit somewhat uncomfortable and bright, however my system has come on a long way since then which has began to make me wonder how how the Grado would sound now. Not decided whether to try an SR60 or SR80. The alessandro models might be worthy of consideration also I would guess.
Other models that I have thought about and have access to, is Sennheiser HD25-1, Beyerdynamic DT150, DT250 (250), DT770 (80), Koss PortaPro or KSC-75, although I think perhaps the latter option would be too much of a step down and not really appropriate for the level of system they would be in?
So to summarise, contenders are:-
Grado SR60 / SR80
For: great fast, hard hitting bass, very lively
Against: fatiguing? uncomfortable, poor build quality
Alessandro MS-1
For: Pretty much the same points as a grado
Against: As above, but not as much fun as a grado?
Beyerdynamic DT150
For: Not much info on them, apparently pretty balanced sound overall
Against: Ugly as sin, huge, dont know if its what i'm looking for.
Beyerdynamic DT250 (250)
For: Closed version of the DT531, surprising sound quality for money?
Against: Not circumaural (but neither are grado)
Beyerdynamic DT770 Pro 80
For: Refined version of the 250 ohm version? Seismic Bass
Against: Perhaps ends up sounding "slow" and lacking drive, dark tonally
Sennheiser HD25-1
For: The closest Sennheiser has to a closed Grado?
Against: Possible comfort issues, might still be too laid back?
So should I go for a Grado or are there any other suggestions?
Currently using HD650 and ANT Amber amp, I think it sounds wonderful on acoustic material and very high quality recordings, but for dance, I find it a little difficult to follow basslines in trance if the recording is less than ideal, as the bass doesn't really pop out at you with the 650. It does everything right in a hifi sense of the word, but doesnt really same to make sense for a lot of the trance that I listen to.
The rest of my rig, and what I use most of the time, if I'm being honest is a Squeezebox fronted system, into an MF Digilog DAC (TDA1541 chipset), which naturally as you would expect I also use with my headphone setup.... however I use a Harman Kardon HK6550 and a pair of Rega Ela loudspeakers. Both items are discontinued items of classic hifi that IMO, would take components costing upwards of $2000 each to significantly better to my ears.
When I listen to the HK6550 / Ela combo, with that pacey DAC as source, I cant believe just how good it sounds, a really fast, pacey, punchy, bass driven sound that manages not to be harsh or bright, but manages to give an incredible smooth and crisp note, and I have to say that sadly, as hard as the Amber / HD650 combo tries, it just isnt good enough to compete. Its probably true to say that the headphone rig resolves more detail if you are listening for it, but theres not an awful lot of difference in detail terms, but apart from that the speakers do everything better and makes hard hitting music extremely good fun to listen to, and is far more forgiving of poor recordings.
The amp and speakers really complement each other well, a very full bodied, muscular, dynamic sounding amp feeding some of the most agile transmission line speakers you will ever hear is just a brilliant combo, and it gives a sound I feel is missing from a lot of hifi.
What I am after is that similar match made in headphone heaven. I think I am half way there really, as I suspect the ANT is a punchy little amp, as it has proved with many other headphones I've used it for, I think the HD650 is the restricting link here. I dont doubt that there is a possibility that you could probably power the HD650 up to great things, say if you used balanced into a really high quality amplifier, but I dont have the kind of cash it would take, and frankly, I think why the hell should I spend that much money on something just to try and better a stereo rig that was pretty much assembled for around $500 on ebay and hifi forums.
I dont think my source is the weak point. The TDA1541 is a classic DAC which is often used in classic Philips, Rotel and Naim CD players, among others, and is known for giving a very fast paced, detailed, almost analogue like, so I dont think that needs to be replaced, besides which, it cost me more to buy than the amp and speakers put together, and contains many mods such as uprated caps and suchlike.
Given that source and headphone amp, you would think that it would wake the HD650 up a bit? Well yes it does, quite a lot actually, but still, I feel the HD650 still leave their smothering wake on poor quality recordings, and feel that they sound dull and lifeless. When the recordings are good, they are brilliant headphones. Which is why they will be staying. Give it some acoustic material, such as REM, Dire Straits or other similar music which lets the HD650 shine, it sounds stunning. They are also good with ambient and such like. However, on techno such as john digweed, paul van dyk, armin van buuren etc, it is not so great as I feel the HD650 are not tolerating subpar recordings and leave a dull, flat sound. This is the exact opposite to my speaker rig, which injects really drive and life into even relatively poor recordings. However, for the reason that the 650 are good with better recordings and acoustic / ambient, the 650 will be staying.
What I want is a headphone that can deliver drive and life the same as my speakers can. Serious pace and agility is required, with great clarity.
I was thinking about trying a Grado SR60 or SR80. In the past I have avoided Grado because I personally think their price fixing policy in none-native lands is highway robbery. I dont know how they can justify charging $1400 for an RS-1 in the UK, and even the modest SR60 retails at a rip-off $180 over here. Having said that, I did used to have a pair of SR80s, and drove them straight from my integrated amp at the time (a Rotel) and one thing sticks in my mind about how pacey they were and also how lively and dynamic. Albeit somewhat uncomfortable and bright, however my system has come on a long way since then which has began to make me wonder how how the Grado would sound now. Not decided whether to try an SR60 or SR80. The alessandro models might be worthy of consideration also I would guess.
Other models that I have thought about and have access to, is Sennheiser HD25-1, Beyerdynamic DT150, DT250 (250), DT770 (80), Koss PortaPro or KSC-75, although I think perhaps the latter option would be too much of a step down and not really appropriate for the level of system they would be in?
So to summarise, contenders are:-
Grado SR60 / SR80
For: great fast, hard hitting bass, very lively
Against: fatiguing? uncomfortable, poor build quality
Alessandro MS-1
For: Pretty much the same points as a grado
Against: As above, but not as much fun as a grado?
Beyerdynamic DT150
For: Not much info on them, apparently pretty balanced sound overall
Against: Ugly as sin, huge, dont know if its what i'm looking for.
Beyerdynamic DT250 (250)
For: Closed version of the DT531, surprising sound quality for money?
Against: Not circumaural (but neither are grado)
Beyerdynamic DT770 Pro 80
For: Refined version of the 250 ohm version? Seismic Bass
Against: Perhaps ends up sounding "slow" and lacking drive, dark tonally
Sennheiser HD25-1
For: The closest Sennheiser has to a closed Grado?
Against: Possible comfort issues, might still be too laid back?
So should I go for a Grado or are there any other suggestions?
