[DrSheep]

Without knowing more about your CIEM is hard to recommend options, but in general it is more important to have a good pair of IEMs vs. DAC/AMP.  Choice of amp will depends on how well your CIEM respond to amping and at what freq range.

 

[StanD]

  Without knowing more about your CIEM is hard to recommend options, but in general it is more important to have a good pair of IEMs vs. DAC/AMP.  Choice of amp will depends on how well your CIEM respond to amping and at what freq range.

Any decent amp should have a flat FR across the audio spectrum. Usually with IEMs power is not an issue but gain and noise are important. Distortion should not be an issue, unless it's a lousy amp. Transducers almost always have distortion levels that are higher than amps.

 

[Scotty141]

  Without knowing more about your CIEM is hard to recommend options, but in general it is more important to have a good pair of IEMs vs. DAC/AMP.  Choice of amp will depends on how well your CIEM respond to amping and at what freq range.

 
Perhaps this might help? It's not the official website so hopefully I can get away with it... (mods: sorry if it's not okay). If you go down to 'Additional Information' it has some tech specs, but not many. If you tell me what information I need, I can easily contact them and ask for it!

 

[DrSheep]

   
Perhaps this might help? It's not the official website so hopefully I can get away with it... (mods: sorry if it's not okay). If you go down to 'Additional Information' it has some tech specs, but not many. If you tell me what information I need, I can easily contact them and ask for it!

Sigh... I wish you have gone with the Noble Kaiser 10 instead, as your CIEM company is know to have crossover network design issue with their IEMs in the past.

 

[Scotty141]

  Sigh... I wish you have gone with the Noble Kaiser 10 instead, as your CIEM company is know to have crossover network design issue with their IEMs in the past.

Honestly, I wish you hadn't told me about that... Now I do wish I had. It was a rash decision to go with that company, I didn't have much time to think about it and I thought it was good for the price when it was on sale. Nonetheless the money's been paid and the impressions are almost there after over a month of waiting. The two companies do in fact look very similar?....
 
Also, what does you mean by "crossover network design issue"? What does this mean in layman's terms? Should I be concerned?

 

[DrSheep]

 
Honestly, I wish you hadn't told me about that... Now I do wish I had. It was a rash decision to go with that company, I didn't have much time to think about it and I thought it was good for the price when it was on sale. Nonetheless the money's been paid and the impressions are almost there after over a month of waiting. The two companies do in fact look very similar?....
 
Also, what does you mean by "crossover network design issue"? What does this mean in layman's terms? Should I be concerned?

http://rinchoi.blogspot.com/2012/10/heir-audio-4ai.html
 
Read the con section.  I know this is for a different IEM in the past, so who knows if they have learned since (but I wouldn't count on it.)  When you have to link multiple BAs for an IEM with each BA responsible for different frequency range, you need to design a network to correctly link the BAs together, and hence the "crossover network" when sound crossing from one freq range to the next.  In fact, Dr. John Moulton started Heir then moved onto creating Noble (you can look the background up here if you want.)  And let just say that I trust Noble much more than the other company.

 

[Scotty141]

  http://rinchoi.blogspot.com/2012/10/heir-audio-4ai.html
 
Read the con section.  I know this is for a different IEM in the past, so who knows if they have learned since (but I wouldn't count on it.)  When you have to link multiple BAs for an IEM with each BA responsible for different frequency range, you need to design a network to correctly link the BAs together, and hence the "crossover network" when sound crossing from one freq range to the next.  In fact, Dr. John Moulton started Heir then moved onto creating Noble (you can look the background up here if you want.)  And let just say that I trust Noble much more than the other company.

 
Interesting information... Hopefully they've sorted things out... Could you let me know what a "BA" is please?
 
And yes, admittedly Noble looks much more trustworthy, if one were to judge a book by its cover (or website). Hopefully it's just the quality of the website that's lacking, not the actual CIEMs themselves... I've read only good reviews for the company so fingers crossed, all is good.
 
I read several pages of that link you sent me, and not sure why he actually left, is there a concrete reason? or is it all just speculation?

 

[DrSheep]

   
Interesting information... Hopefully they've sorted things out... Could you let me know what a "BA" is please?
 
And yes, admittedly Noble looks much more trustworthy, if one were to judge a book by its cover (or website). Hopefully it's just the quality of the website that's lacking, not the actual CIEMs themselves... I've read only good reviews for the company so fingers crossed, all is good.
 
I read several pages of that link you sent me, and not sure why he actually left, is there a concrete reason? or is it all just speculation?

BA = Balanced Armature.
 
Just think about it, if you built your own company from the ground up, then along the way your partners forced you out, then how would you feel?  Of course we will never know the details as an outsider, but I think this is a pretty key factor on judging the two companies.

 

[Scotty141]

  BA = Balanced Armature.
 
Just think about it, if you built your own company from the ground up, then along the way your partners forced you out, then how would you feel?  Of course we will never know the details as an outsider, but I think this is a pretty key factor on judging the two companies.

 
Yeah, I can see where you're coming from. Obviously there's some reasoning behind their actions, I assume they disagreed on something somewhere. But I agree with what you're saying.
 
Back to the DACs, StanD suggested the FiiO E18. What would you suggest? (not majorly expensive if possible). I've looked online but many articles are outdated or forums being 500 pages long; and I'd rather hear straight from an audiophile such as yourself and other members here, than a journalist or misunderstood individuals.

 

[DrSheep]

   
Yeah, I can see where you're coming from. Obviously there's some reasoning behind their actions, I assume they disagreed on something somewhere. But I agree with what you're saying.
 
Back to the DACs, StanD suggested the FiiO E18. What would you suggest? (not majorly expensive if possible). I've looked online but many articles are outdated or forums being 500 pages long; and I'd rather hear straight from an audiophile such as yourself and other members here, than a journalist or misunderstood individuals.

I still stand by the Skyn (they are only $8000 short on upgrading every Skyn with the Super Amp).  The FiiO stuff used to be good value, but not really any more.  If you really want to go the Android DAC route, please at least check out JDS Labs C5 or C5D.
 
http://www.jdslabs.com/products/84/c5d-amplifier-dac/

 

[Scotty141]

  I still stand by the Skyn (they are only $8000 short on upgrading every Skyn with the Super Amp).  The FiiO stuff used to be good value, but not really any more.  If you really want to go the Android DAC route, please at least check out JDS Labs C5 or C5D.
 
http://www.jdslabs.com/products/84/c5d-amplifier-dac/

 
Okay thanks. I agree that it looks very good value for money! Especially since the Super Amp (HiFi-M8) is worth around $700 and I could get it for $200. But I think StanD has a point. Once I upgrade from my iPhone 6 to the iPhone 7 in 2 years time, that'll be $200 down the drain, since it won't be compatible with the 7. Do you see any way around this? Or will in 2 years the DAC degrade or become irrelevant? - I'm not sure how DACs work, and their quality, etc.
 
You say about an "Android DAC route", what's that? DACs that only work with Android? Because that link says it's compatible with iPhone too?

 

[DrSheep]

 
Okay thanks. I agree that it looks very good value for money! Especially since the Super Amp (HiFi-M8) is worth around $700 and I could get it for $200. But I think StanD has a point. Once I upgrade from my iPhone 6 to the iPhone 7 in 2 years time, that'll be $200 down the drain, since it won't be compatible with the 7. Do you see any way around this? Or will in 2 years the DAC degrade or become irrelevant? - I'm not sure how DACs work, and their quality, etc.
 
You say about an "Android DAC route", what's that? DACs that only work with Android? Because that link says it's compatible with iPhone too?

Think about this way, I have been down on your path before, so I know about getting gear and just keep on upgrading later.  Because guess what, FiiO will sure release more models in two years time, and by then you will be looking to sell and upgrade.  Of course, when the iP7 comes out, you can also sell it for like $100 and pay Mike $200 for the upgrade.  Also, the FiiO E18 only works with iPhones by the use of the CCK, which is not 100% in both hardware and software, as Apple is known to change things often and not for exactly good reasons.  This is why Apple Certified DACs cost so much in the past (Sony PHA-1 for $350), until the Skyn comes along.

 

[StanD]

  Think about this way, I have been down on your path before, so I know about getting gear and just keep on upgrading later.  Because guess what, FiiO will sure release more models in two years time, and by then you will be looking to sell and upgrade.  Of course, when the iP7 comes out, you can also sell it for like $100 and pay Mike $200 for the upgrade.  Also, the FiiO E18 only works with iPhones by the use of the CCK, which is not 100% in both hardware and software, as Apple is known to change things often and not for exactly good reasons.  This is why Apple Certified DACs cost so much in the past (Sony PHA-1 for $350), until the Skyn comes along.

The E18 and a number of other DACs work with the CCK for the same reason as an OTG cable is required for Android. This has nothing to do with Apple, it has to do with host mode for the ports and is 100% to do with hardware and software standards. Apple has adopted the USB Audio Spec, has done an excellent implementation and will not back out of it, they are not all evil. If FiiO or anyone else comes up with a new model there is no reason to uprade unless one wishes to, one is not being forced to by some form factor.

 

[Scotty141]

  Think about this way, I have been down on your path before, so I know about getting gear and just keep on upgrading later.  Because guess what, FiiO will sure release more models in two years time, and by then you will be looking to sell and upgrade.  Of course, when the iP7 comes out, you can also sell it for like $100 and pay Mike $200 for the upgrade.  Also, the FiiO E18 only works with iPhones by the use of the CCK, which is not 100% in both hardware and software, as Apple is known to change things often and not for exactly good reasons.  This is why Apple Certified DACs cost so much in the past (Sony PHA-1 for $350), until the Skyn comes along.

 
I was unaware the company would upgrade models for $200? I saw they would upgrade iPhone 5/5S users to the 6 model for $200, but didn't see anything about the 6 to the 7, and so-on? Will this be a re-occuring thing then when a new iPhone is released, an upgrade will be available for $200? Is this confirmed? And thank you very much for the information.
 

  The E18 and a number of other DACs work with the CCK for the same reason as an OTG cable is required for Android. This has nothing to do with Apple, it has to do with host mode for the ports and is 100% to do with hardware and software standards. Apple has adopted the USB Audio Spec, has done an excellent implementation and will not back out of it, they are not all evil. If FiiO or anyone else comes up with a new model there is no reason to uprade unless one wishes to, one is not being forced to by some form factor.

 
Are you strictly against the Skyn, StanD? I've seen you and DrSheep debating a lot (for which most of the terminology I don't understand), and you seem to be against the Skyn and more in favour of other DACs. Is there a reason for this, I'm very curious to know different people's standpoints.

 

[DrSheep]

Scott, it's not confirmed but I think you can at least ask.  Or you can plan on a three way upgrade when the 7 is out: get the Skyn for 5, then sell your 5 and get a used iTouch 5th gen for the Skyn and a 6; then sell the 6 when 7 comes out.