[Dr No]

Quote:

 

 


Quote:

Quote:

The more impressions I get from the BHSE the more convinced I am that the BHSE is not that superior one might think after reading all the pre-production hyped posts.

 
One of the frustrating things about considering a purchase of this amp is the lack of impressions from owners. You read through this thread and see a lot of anticipation, but then ultimately once the amp is received the owners go quiet. Now, with a little perspective, I think I understand what is going on.
 
For example, I've been re-reading Darth Nut's posts here and elsewhere, and though it has taken me about 10 years, I think I finally am beginning to understand what he was saying. In a post on headwize, he wrote, "What the Omega2 offers to a long-term owner is ... simply long-term sonic payback. Nothing about its sound would captivate a person on first listening, unless the person was already an experienced listener who knows how to be immediately captivated by seemingly-uncaptivating sound. With time, it reveals its strenghts. Its strengths are its remarkable resolution powers, its weight and heft, and its forgiving yet revealing nature." Although he was using the SR-007 with the SRM-T2 and not a Blue Hawaii, I think his post is a remarkably apt in regards to the BHSE. People who buy the BHSE are by-and-large individuals who love the SR-007 despite its apparent "weaknesses" to headphones like the HE90. In his post on audio asylum comparing the SR-Omega to the SR-007, he wrote, "The trouble with ‘voicing’ a headphone to create a subtle out-of-the-head ‘headstage’ is that the headphone’s focus inevitably becomes compromised. The out-of-the-head ‘soundstage’ ends up becoming a ‘smear’, washing off the pin-pointed focus of voices and instruments. This is excactly the weakness of the Omega1: its lack of pin-pointed focus compared to the Omega2. If I were to offer a simplistic analogy it would be that the Omega1’s sound is like a large-size slightly out-of-focus photograph, while the Omega2’s sound is like a small-size sharp-focus photograph. And the average headphone is a small-size completely out-of-focus photograph." That is, the strengths of the SR-007 are a tradeoff against the strengths of the SR-Omega or the HE90: clarity and focus in imaging vs the "shimmering watercolor washes" of the SR-Omega.
 
When you are an individual who is looking for long-term sonic payback, the benefits can't be described with hour-by-hour burn in impressions like you see of headphones like the Ultrasone Edition 10. How does one describe "seemingly-uncaptivating sound?" The BHSE, like the SR-007 is something you buy because you love music, and because you want to experience your entire music collection, not just be wowed by a handful of your best-recorded albums. But I think this is why no one to my knowledge who has actually owned the BHSE has sold it. As immtbiker said, "To own this amp is an honor that should not be taken lightly. It's a lifelong keeper."
 
Finally, once you own the BHSE you don't really want to talk about it because it pretty much feels like you'd be rubbing it in everyones' faces.

Have you heard the headphones you are referring to? HE90, Stax Omega, or SR007? Sounds like you just quote old posts regarding them.
I do not like the SR007 and I don´t think that the BHSE can "compensate" for it´s weaknesses. A lot of people hype the 007, trying to conform to the general assumptions on this forum, without hearing it for themselves.
If the BHSE would make up for the weaknesses of the 007, I just think that people would post that on this forum. So far no one has. Strange to me.

 

[Anders]

Quote:

I tend to agree that appreciation of any good component grows in the long run and that when the particularly strong attribute of a component is "balance" and doing everything right, the first impression is usually not strong (nothing stands out from the performance).  I think this is the case with the BHSE. 
 

Very well said, and this also makes it more difficult to categorize BHSE than most other components. It has no pronounced sound character. As an example sound stage varies with the setting and the recording technique, sometimes it is concentrated only on a single point and sometimes very wide and with considerable height, filling up the whole space (with O2). Hard music with much slam can sound so without "audiophile smoothing" but it can also sound warm and delicate on romantic classical pieces. Bass sounds very different, sometimes more rounded, with impact and decay, and sometimes very hard hitting. Many systems have a typical bass sound, but not BHSE/O2.
 
That said, I can very well listen to 007t/HE60 and even thought about rolling some tubes, but this system has more of "a sound character of its own" and works best with small scale acoustic music.
 
 

 

[Michgelsen]

Ok, thanks for clarifying.
 
Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Not only that, but Headamp"s BHSE is a beautiful piece of art. The 45° fins for the heat sinks was a picture right out of Star Wars.

 
It may look cool, but I think it really hurts the cooling perfomance of the heatsinks. The point of vertical heatsinks is that convection creates a constant upward airflow that pulls in cool air from the bottom to cool off the heatsinks. With these horizontal heatsinks on the BHSE this airflow is blocked. Between the fins the air is now trapped and doesn't make room for new, cool air. I would therefore prefer my (totally hypothetical) BHSE with normal, vertical heatsinks.

The 45 degree fins are more than enough for the cooling needed which is only 25 watts per side.  The reason for this design was only partially aesthetic, it was mostly for manufacturability.

 

[immtbiker]

I don't want to burn any bridges, but the Stax 007T and the SS 717 are nothing better than average amps. 
Stax makes a great headphone but their amps are lacking. The Woo GES and climbing the steep mountain, the Blue Hawaii and T-2 are worlds above the Stax amps. The 2 Stax amps were designed for the 007T MKI and II but are less than entry level amps. I do not mean to insult anyone, but if you listened to them side by side, the difference is astonishing. I've owned both amps, with upgraded tubes on the 007t and it just doesn't do other Stax headphones any justice. 
Unfortunately, the BHSE, Aristaeus, WES, and the HEV-90 are rich man's amps, and the goal would be to find something in between the price ranges. Even the RSA A-10 and the Woo GES are in the $5K range. However, you will really never really know what the O2's and the 4070's potentials are, without the better amp. Even the Jades jumped 10 notches when I went from my Woo GES, to the Blue Hawaii design. Even that guy from Colorado that begins with a "M" produced better electrostatic sound, in his early, non-psychotic days. But again, they broke the bank.
We need a manufacturer to build a better amp for around $2500, so it's not an "all or nothing" deal. I truly did not mean to insult anyone in my post, but fact is fact.

 

[Anders]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr No

 

I do not like the SR007 and I don´t think that the BHSE can "compensate" for it´s weaknesses. A lot of people hype the 007, trying to conform to the general assumptions on this forum, without hearing it for themselves.
If the BHSE would make up for the weaknesses of the 007, I just think that people would post that on this forum. So far no one has. Strange to me.

It is not clear what you don't like and what you regard as limitations of O2. Your equipment profile is empty and there is no hint to what you may like.
You seem convinced that BHSE cannot make up for the weaknesses. There has been a lot of discussion about O2 driven by different amplifiers in the Stax thread for years and I think all these questions have been discussed repeatedly. But maybe not in relation to the weaknesses you have in mind.
 
I am a little puzzled by what you write about the lot of people who hype O2 without having heard it. Not much in the Stax thread and similar but happily I have no complete picture of all junk threads.
 
My guess is that if you don't like O2 at all, you will not like it with BHSE either. I think few owners would regard it as the ultimate system for all tastes and preferences. However, it is the most transparent and neutral system I have heard so far (Orpheus included).
 
I hope you will find something you like!

 

 

[Paganini Alfredo]

This no doubt an incredibly stupid question, but what are the financial limitations in producing a cheaper amp to power electrostatic headphones?

 

[spritzer]

The 717 and 007t are indeed average by the standards of high end Stax amps but that just says more about the high end Stax amps then the quality of the 717 and 007t. 

  I do think both are excellent amps though but built to a price.  Fit the 717 with a better PSU and a more advanced output stage and you end up with a KGSS.  Take the 007t and drop the 6CG7 tubes for 6S4A's, swap out the 47K plate resistors for a CCS and install a regulated PSU and the end result is a stunning amp.  Stax even tried to use it with EL34's for the first prototype of the T2 but that doesn't really work. 

 

[Asr]

I have only one thing to add to this thread:
 
Anyone who owns an OII MKI (regardless of amp) and listens to classical-type music should get a copy of Julia Fischer's Bach Concertos CD. The Adagio from the Violin Concerto in E major (track #8) is positively surreal on the OII. I've heard this track countless times, including on other headphones like the HD800, HP1000/HP2, LCD-2, and even the JH13, and none of them come close to the OII. It's not that this music shows off the OII necessarily or even that it simply sounds great on it - it's much more about the absolutely unbelievable portayal that this specific recording gets on the OII. One could hear it on the HD800, HP1000, LCD-2, or JH13 and simply think it sounds great - but between those, it's only the OII that takes it from "great" to "holy flippin' crap amazing!"
 
I mean, I've listened to that track so many times now that I lost count, and every time I hear it on the OII, it's nothing but awesome. I repeat: Every. Single. Time. No words can describe it. It's a slow piece but the violin's intensity is off the charts and the bowing expression is insanely detailed, you can hear her change her speed and push/pull (including her extremely careful movements when crossing strings) and it's performed amazingly well. It's almost like they put a microphone inside her violin! It's crazy how awesome that track sounds on the OII and I absolutely love it as it's nothing but pure music, literally. Granted, the BHSE and my source are likely big factors to the sound too, but it's the OII that has obviously much more potential than the HD800, HP1000, LCD-2, or JH13. I feel sorry for anyone who doesn't have an OII/BHSE to enjoy that CD on, it really is that awesome! I can't even put a number to how much more enjoyment I get out of the OII/BHSE on that CD! I almost can't tolerate any other headphones now.

 

[immtbiker]

Quote:

My guess is that if you don't like O2 at all, you will not like it with BHSE either. I think few owners would regard it as the ultimate system for all tastes and preferences. However, it is the most transparent and neutral system I have heard so far (Orpheus included).

Not in my case. I have bought and sold two O2's (one of them brand new, second one because I wanted to give them another chance with a newly purchased GES), and until I heard them being powered at a NYC Regional Meet that Justin brought his with him (I think someone else left with it), I never really fancied them.
When I heard them that day out of the BHSE, it totally changed my mind about the cans. There were others there at the meet that had the same outcome.
I own and listen to my OI's on a regular basis, but that is only for Jazz and classical. I don't feel that the OI's have enough bass for rock and speed, but their detail is undeniable.
 

 

[spritzer]

Quote:

This no doubt an incredibly stupid question, but what are the financial limitations in producing a cheaper amp to power electrostatic headphones?

High voltage always costs money and there are no cheap solutions out there such as HV opamps.  Those opamps do exist but the price is truly eye watering.  This calls for a fully discrete design (though you can use opamps for the first stage).  All the components also have to be uprated for the job, including diodes, resistors and capacitors.  This means more money and you naturally have a fully balanced output stage so you need 4 of everything instead of just two for a "normal" stereo amp.  Most of the Stax amps are also 100% balanced (including the SRM-252 even if it only has RCA inputs) so more parts are needed. 
 
The cheapest, most simple ESP amp you could build would be the basic differential tube amp using just two triodes per phase for a fully balanced amp.  This is what Rudistor is trying to pass off as high end (which it clearly isn't) but even with a simple amp like this you have to make sure the two stages have isolated filament windings since the tubes are run out of spec.  It is no wonder that this also doesn't measure all that well so you need to add more parts and negative feedback just to make it stable and linear.  This is just the most basic 1940's tube design but when you move to more advanced designs such are the modern Stax amps you have lots of stages, all driven by constant current supply's and with a distortion rating of at least 0.1%THD or lower. 
 
All of this leaves out the power supply which is arguably the most important bit of the whole amp.  Here the sky is the limit (and we are certainly reaching for it with the new DIY amps) but even a basic capacitor filter isn't cheap.  Amps like the SRM-300/310 have a fully regulated PSU all in a box that is small enough to function as a headphone stand. 

 

[immtbiker]

Sig by Steve (ASR):
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
I do not respond to unsolicited PMs (includes questions about gear I've had, reviews I've written, meet impressions, etc) and aggressively delete them on sight.
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
 
Nice Steve, especially the "aggressively" part 

 

[jcx]

 
Quote:

This no doubt an incredibly stupid question, but what are the financial limitations in producing a cheaper amp to power electrostatic headphones?

Koss makes one cheap enough to bundle with the esp950 for US$650 together - so just making an amp is not cost prohibitive - really cheap ABS plastic box, switching ps, Class AB output, op amp input...
 
meeting audiophile expectations in case, volume pot, knobs, connectors, "build quality" easily adds $1-2K to retail, Class A is stupidly inefficient with capacitive load and 50+ W of high V power supply, added heatsinking, requiring a bigger box that adds lots to cost too - but anything not Class A biased will be trashed without a listen in audiophile circles - SS is cheaper, more reliable, easier to manufacture but also gives at least one strike against you vs any tube amp
 
and of course there's market size - Justin is selling ~ a dozen or two BHSE every (few) year(s)? - if you're not selling the amps with your own es headphone then you have to come up with $20-50K in startup costs just to sell in a market with maybe a total of a hundred units a year sales from all participants?  How many of your new "reasonably priced" es headphone amp do you think you can sell? - planning on taking 5 yrs to recover startup costs?
 
what would you charge under those conditions - even before recognizing the power of high price == high quality expectation in high end audio
 
I suspect even cheap Asian builders want to see the potential for many hundreds to thousands of units/yr - I bet they want to compete on price in a established market rather than take the lead in creating a new market category

 

[Michgelsen]

Quote:

We need a manufacturer to build a better amp for around $2500, so it's not an "all or nothing" deal. I truly did not mean to insult anyone in my post, but fact is fact.

 
Headamp KGSS?

 

[Driftwood]

Quote:

Have you heard the headphones you are referring to? HE90, Stax Omega, or SR007? Sounds like you just quote old posts regarding them.
I do not like the SR007 and I don´t think that the BHSE can "compensate" for it´s weaknesses. A lot of people hype the 007, trying to conform to the general assumptions on this forum, without hearing it for themselves.
If the BHSE would make up for the weaknesses of the 007, I just think that people would post that on this forum. So far no one has. Strange to me.

 
I'm sorry if you were looking for fresher material, but I just thought that Darth Nut's comments were pretty astute, and expressed my thoughts better than I could have expressed them myself. Plus, what I think I was trying to do in a somewhat circumspect manner is to show that these sort of questions have already been answered, though perhaps indirectly, several years ago.
 
I personally feel that the SR-007 is one of the least hyped headphones on head-fi, certainly compared to other expensive headphones such as the MDR-R10 or the HE90. I'm not sure exactly what you are looking for however, as there are about a million posts that state that the BHSE addresses the "dark" sound it has on most Stax amps (SRM-T2 excepted). I get tired of reading it.
 
However, it sounds to me like you are looking for something different. Great! The SR-007 isn't for everyone. Maybe you'll prefer the C32, who knows? That's why it is great that there are so many different headphones, there is bound to be something for everyone.

 

[Driftwood]

Quote:

Quote:

We need a manufacturer to build a better amp for around $2500, so it's not an "all or nothing" deal. I truly did not mean to insult anyone in my post, but fact is fact.

 
Headamp KGSS?

I always forget Justin still sells the KGSS. I think he would probably sell tons of these if he simply put it in a case that was along the lines of the BHSE. Maybe eventually he'll do something like this with the high-voltage version.