big-ban
100+ Head-Fier
- Joined
- Jun 30, 2003
- Posts
- 199
- Likes
- 12
Hi @ll!
It's been some time since I have both of these phones. I decided to take some time comparing both because I haven't discovered a detailed review of these two cans yet.
I previously owned the DT880's only which were a replacement for my broken DT911's (identical to the DT931's) using them straight out of my Terratec Aureon Sky soundcard (headphone amplifier included).
I must admit that the DT880's blew me away the first time I heard them with this soundcard. They presented a huge wide soundstage, very clear, extended highs, a wonderful rich midrange and a very deep and tight bass. Not to mention that I agree with most of the head-fi'ers here that they are simply amazing for female vocals.
The soundstage with its very 3D-like, airy feeling of some recordings kept buzzing me and I was really satisfied with what I heard.
Then I came across the reviews of the HD650's and started investigating if they'd really be worth the price difference over the DT880's. I got my DT880's from ebay almost new for 135€ (instant-buy)... I must say the seller really got himself ripped off there
Once more I found an incredible bargain at dvdupgrades.ch, offering the HD650's for 361 CHF (~228€ - VAT excluded) NEW. I simply couldn't let that opportunity pass and got these immediately. In the end it turned out to a price of ~270€ which is still incredible if you consider that fact these are generally to be had for 350€+
Too bad dvdupgrades has increased the price right after I bought them... I was just very lucky
First impressions
---------------------
When the cans finally arrived I couldn't help but checking them out even without having them burned-in. All of the following impressions refer to the "out-of-the-box" state of the HD650's (stock cable) compared to the "well-burned-in" state of the DT880's.
After hooking them up to my soundcard I instantly noticed they sounded VERY similar to the DT880's. It's very blatant though that the HD650's are louder and can be considered more efficient than the DT880's. This difference in volume made it a little difficult to compare the two as you'd always have to re-adjust the levels.
They do however share the same sonic signature and have comparable capabilities in all frequency ranges.
I did then notice the HD650's had a tiny bit more bass which seemed to extend lower and be more present than on the DT880's. Even though if you compared them A/B you wouldn't notice too much of a difference. I did however have the feeling that with the HD650's you can "hear" the bass more whereas with the DT880's you could literally more "feel" it. It is there too, but more noticable with the HD650's.
On the second listening I found that the midrange of the HD650's had more fullness and airyness to it. I never noticed it when I was listening to my DT880's before, but in direct comparison the 880's sounded a little hollow and "boxed-in" in the midrange.
After some more listening it became apparent that the 880's had a wider soundstage with more distinct positioning than the 650's. With the 650's you'd still have that effect allowing you to distiguish easily between different instruments - it just didn't give me that much of the "wow"-effect of the DT880's on some recordings. The soundstage of the HD650's was still impressive though. Its competitor just did it a tiny bit better.
Then again I had the feeling I was able to hear more detail than with the 880's. When I checked to be sure, I was able to hear the detail on the 880's too. I just didn't notice it before. The HD650's do actually put some more emphasis to detail whereas they're in fact not so much more detailed if you pay attention.
When comparing female vocals on these phones the DT880 stood out a little bit more than the Sennheisers. They delivered a similar presentation in terms of detail, the 880's did just make the voice sound a little fuller and warmer.
Initially I also found the treble of the HD650's to be a little more harsh than on the DT880's. On some recordings I just had to turn the volume down because I am a little bit sensitive to high frequencies.
I then did some burn-in with some low frequency signals like 25, 35 and 60 Hz I burned onto a CD. I then hooked my HD650's up to my CDP and let it run overnight.
After "burn-in"
------------------
I compared the result daily and noticed only slight changes. There were some periods as others have observed too, where the 650's seemed a bit dull and sometimes lacking bass. After like 100-150 hours of burn-in I left the nightly playing of bass notes and decided to just consider them "fully burned-in"
What I notice now that I have played them for several hundreds of hours is that there were only some subtle changes compared to the "out-of-the-box" and the "burned-in" state. The bass seems to be a little (it might be just my imagination) more defined and extend a little deeper whereas the harshness in the highs has mostly disappeared. The midrage still did open up a little bit making the 880's sound even more like "boxed-in" in comparison.
I now feel female vocals sound equally good on both headphones - for whatever reason. Both have that natural, intimate "into-the-ear"-feeling that makes female vocals so soothing and pleasant to listen to (you sometimes find yourself believing, little Norah is just whispering into your ear
)
Comparing the bass responses I definately notice a difference in the very low bass reproduction. The HD650's seem to do frequencies as low as 20-30 Hz more precisely, more defined. Otherwise the bass response is still pretty much comparable with maybe a slight overall plus towards the HD650's.
All in all I have the feeling that the burn-in procedure resulted in some small improvements which I can hardly pin-point.
As some reference recordings I recommend the following.
Albums:
- A Perfect Circle - Thirteenth Step
- Liquid Tension Experiment 1&2
- Archive - Londinium (what a bass *waves over to Jazz*
)
- Dream Theater - Scenes From A Memory
- Evanescence - Fallen
- Miles Davis - Aura
- Norah Jones - Feels Like Home
- Christina Aguilera - Stripped (don't hit me, it's just a good recording
)
Various songs:
- Shpongle - Dorset Perception and Divine Moments Of Truth (amazing recordings!)
- Nelly Furtado - Everyday
- Boney James - Seduction
- Kenny G - Malibu Dreams
- Paul Taylor - "On The Move" (nice bass punch
) and "Pleasure Seeker"
- Linkin Park - "Breaking The Habit" and "Lying From You"
- Metallica - It's Electric
- Ill Nino - God Save Us
- Sevendust - Crucified
- Deftones - Around The Fur (drum intro)
- Helge Schneider - Making Of "Fitze, Fitze, Fatze" (
almost sounds like a binaural recording. Ah yeah, and it's crazy, too
)
Conclusion
-------------
My conclusion might not be as most of you would expect. Some consider the HD650's to be highly superior to the DT880's. In fact they do everything a "little" bit better than the 880's do, except for the width of soundstage. The 650's seem a little bit darker overall, where the 880's have a little more presence in the highs.
Now considering the street prices of the two I think that the 650's are not worth almost twice the price of the 880's which they actually cost. The 650's can normally be had for 350€, the 880's for about 200€.
The 880's are still a fantastic headphone and I'd recommend those to everyone who doesn't consider himself to be an "extreme" audiophile (of course to those who have at least a comparable amplification to my soundcard
). They're in fact not very far from the HD650's. The DT880's are a real bargain.
However I cannot say anything about the 650's upgrading capabilities. Most of the aftermarket cables are ridiculously expensive and I wouldn't even bother to pay any of those prices for a simple cable. As some say, the Zu Cable makes a significant improvement over the stock one. Likewise I can't tell the differences to what you might call "real high-end equipment". My reference is my Terratec Aureon Sky soundcard which, to my ears, just produces an incredibly neutral, balanced, clear, and spacial high-end sound. This sound card is a really good one for its price and I believe it is capable of driving both headphones pretty well. When driving both headphones straight out of my CDP headphone jack they just sound plain dull and muffled. No real fun to listen to them. It feels like a big relief if you hook them back up to the Terratec
So in this review I am just referencing to stock cables for both headphones and as far as I am to judge, I like the HD650's more. Maybe I'll sell my DT880's but I most definately know that you don't HAVE to upgrade if you own the DT880's and get tempted to buy the HD650's.
So the 650's do win clearly over the 880's, they do NOT outclass them.
Comments, thoughts and questions on this review are highly appreciated
big
edit: grammatical corrections
It's been some time since I have both of these phones. I decided to take some time comparing both because I haven't discovered a detailed review of these two cans yet.
I previously owned the DT880's only which were a replacement for my broken DT911's (identical to the DT931's) using them straight out of my Terratec Aureon Sky soundcard (headphone amplifier included).
I must admit that the DT880's blew me away the first time I heard them with this soundcard. They presented a huge wide soundstage, very clear, extended highs, a wonderful rich midrange and a very deep and tight bass. Not to mention that I agree with most of the head-fi'ers here that they are simply amazing for female vocals.
The soundstage with its very 3D-like, airy feeling of some recordings kept buzzing me and I was really satisfied with what I heard.
Then I came across the reviews of the HD650's and started investigating if they'd really be worth the price difference over the DT880's. I got my DT880's from ebay almost new for 135€ (instant-buy)... I must say the seller really got himself ripped off there
Once more I found an incredible bargain at dvdupgrades.ch, offering the HD650's for 361 CHF (~228€ - VAT excluded) NEW. I simply couldn't let that opportunity pass and got these immediately. In the end it turned out to a price of ~270€ which is still incredible if you consider that fact these are generally to be had for 350€+
Too bad dvdupgrades has increased the price right after I bought them... I was just very lucky
First impressions
---------------------
When the cans finally arrived I couldn't help but checking them out even without having them burned-in. All of the following impressions refer to the "out-of-the-box" state of the HD650's (stock cable) compared to the "well-burned-in" state of the DT880's.
After hooking them up to my soundcard I instantly noticed they sounded VERY similar to the DT880's. It's very blatant though that the HD650's are louder and can be considered more efficient than the DT880's. This difference in volume made it a little difficult to compare the two as you'd always have to re-adjust the levels.
They do however share the same sonic signature and have comparable capabilities in all frequency ranges.
I did then notice the HD650's had a tiny bit more bass which seemed to extend lower and be more present than on the DT880's. Even though if you compared them A/B you wouldn't notice too much of a difference. I did however have the feeling that with the HD650's you can "hear" the bass more whereas with the DT880's you could literally more "feel" it. It is there too, but more noticable with the HD650's.
On the second listening I found that the midrange of the HD650's had more fullness and airyness to it. I never noticed it when I was listening to my DT880's before, but in direct comparison the 880's sounded a little hollow and "boxed-in" in the midrange.
After some more listening it became apparent that the 880's had a wider soundstage with more distinct positioning than the 650's. With the 650's you'd still have that effect allowing you to distiguish easily between different instruments - it just didn't give me that much of the "wow"-effect of the DT880's on some recordings. The soundstage of the HD650's was still impressive though. Its competitor just did it a tiny bit better.
Then again I had the feeling I was able to hear more detail than with the 880's. When I checked to be sure, I was able to hear the detail on the 880's too. I just didn't notice it before. The HD650's do actually put some more emphasis to detail whereas they're in fact not so much more detailed if you pay attention.
When comparing female vocals on these phones the DT880 stood out a little bit more than the Sennheisers. They delivered a similar presentation in terms of detail, the 880's did just make the voice sound a little fuller and warmer.
Initially I also found the treble of the HD650's to be a little more harsh than on the DT880's. On some recordings I just had to turn the volume down because I am a little bit sensitive to high frequencies.
I then did some burn-in with some low frequency signals like 25, 35 and 60 Hz I burned onto a CD. I then hooked my HD650's up to my CDP and let it run overnight.
After "burn-in"
------------------
I compared the result daily and noticed only slight changes. There were some periods as others have observed too, where the 650's seemed a bit dull and sometimes lacking bass. After like 100-150 hours of burn-in I left the nightly playing of bass notes and decided to just consider them "fully burned-in"
What I notice now that I have played them for several hundreds of hours is that there were only some subtle changes compared to the "out-of-the-box" and the "burned-in" state. The bass seems to be a little (it might be just my imagination) more defined and extend a little deeper whereas the harshness in the highs has mostly disappeared. The midrage still did open up a little bit making the 880's sound even more like "boxed-in" in comparison.
I now feel female vocals sound equally good on both headphones - for whatever reason. Both have that natural, intimate "into-the-ear"-feeling that makes female vocals so soothing and pleasant to listen to (you sometimes find yourself believing, little Norah is just whispering into your ear
Comparing the bass responses I definately notice a difference in the very low bass reproduction. The HD650's seem to do frequencies as low as 20-30 Hz more precisely, more defined. Otherwise the bass response is still pretty much comparable with maybe a slight overall plus towards the HD650's.
All in all I have the feeling that the burn-in procedure resulted in some small improvements which I can hardly pin-point.
As some reference recordings I recommend the following.
Albums:
- A Perfect Circle - Thirteenth Step
- Liquid Tension Experiment 1&2
- Archive - Londinium (what a bass *waves over to Jazz*
- Dream Theater - Scenes From A Memory
- Evanescence - Fallen
- Miles Davis - Aura
- Norah Jones - Feels Like Home
- Christina Aguilera - Stripped (don't hit me, it's just a good recording
Various songs:
- Shpongle - Dorset Perception and Divine Moments Of Truth (amazing recordings!)
- Nelly Furtado - Everyday
- Boney James - Seduction
- Kenny G - Malibu Dreams
- Paul Taylor - "On The Move" (nice bass punch
- Linkin Park - "Breaking The Habit" and "Lying From You"
- Metallica - It's Electric
- Ill Nino - God Save Us
- Sevendust - Crucified
- Deftones - Around The Fur (drum intro)
- Helge Schneider - Making Of "Fitze, Fitze, Fatze" (
Conclusion
-------------
My conclusion might not be as most of you would expect. Some consider the HD650's to be highly superior to the DT880's. In fact they do everything a "little" bit better than the 880's do, except for the width of soundstage. The 650's seem a little bit darker overall, where the 880's have a little more presence in the highs.
Now considering the street prices of the two I think that the 650's are not worth almost twice the price of the 880's which they actually cost. The 650's can normally be had for 350€, the 880's for about 200€.
The 880's are still a fantastic headphone and I'd recommend those to everyone who doesn't consider himself to be an "extreme" audiophile (of course to those who have at least a comparable amplification to my soundcard
However I cannot say anything about the 650's upgrading capabilities. Most of the aftermarket cables are ridiculously expensive and I wouldn't even bother to pay any of those prices for a simple cable. As some say, the Zu Cable makes a significant improvement over the stock one. Likewise I can't tell the differences to what you might call "real high-end equipment". My reference is my Terratec Aureon Sky soundcard which, to my ears, just produces an incredibly neutral, balanced, clear, and spacial high-end sound. This sound card is a really good one for its price and I believe it is capable of driving both headphones pretty well. When driving both headphones straight out of my CDP headphone jack they just sound plain dull and muffled. No real fun to listen to them. It feels like a big relief if you hook them back up to the Terratec
So in this review I am just referencing to stock cables for both headphones and as far as I am to judge, I like the HD650's more. Maybe I'll sell my DT880's but I most definately know that you don't HAVE to upgrade if you own the DT880's and get tempted to buy the HD650's.
So the 650's do win clearly over the 880's, they do NOT outclass them.
Comments, thoughts and questions on this review are highly appreciated
big
edit: grammatical corrections