derbigpr
Headphoneus Supremus
- Joined
- Jan 19, 2011
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I got my new HD650's yesterday and now finally my Headbox SEII amp has proper task to do instead of running cheap low impedance headphones. I've listened to them for a few hours only, but I though I should share my impressionsn, since they highly impressed me, and I'm so far very satisfied with my purchase.
Setup:
Lossless files trough Foobar2000 with Asio --> Asus Xonar D2X --> Pro-ject Headbox SEII --> shiny headphones.
Amplifier:
This is going to be short, let me just say, this amplifier really surprised me. I was expecting it to not have the power to run these headphones after being disappointed by its lack of power with cheap headphones, but it does, more than enough. One tiny detail that bothers me though.... volume control seems to increase power exponentially, if you know what I mean. For example, you have turn it to about 50% to get any volume, to about 70% to get a comfortably loud listening volume, and after that it just gets louder and louder. Its too loud to listen for longer then a few seconds on max volume, but still crystal clear and without absolutely any distortion whatsoever, it seems to run HD650's effortlessly. There isn't much headroom, its not like it pushes headphones to their limit when the volume knob is on 50%, but its more than loud enough for anyone with decent hearing ability...and for those who want to keep their hearing ability.
I haven't tried HD650's with a better amp obviously, but IMHO, even if this was the best sound possible to get out of these headphones, I would not be disappointed. While this amp doesn't work properly with low impedance headphones due to its high output impedance (30 ohm), it seems to be very nice with high impedance ones. But that's enough about the amp, this is a headphone section of forum. The point is, if you have HD650's and seek a nice entry level amp for around 250 dollars, I can recommend the Headbox SEII.
Headphones:
I'm not gonna mess about and talk about comfort, build quality, cable, price (€500), etc..... "everyone" here knows "everything" about these headphones anyway. I'm only gonna talk about sound...since my impressions of the sound are somewhat different than most reviews portray it.
NOTE: These headphones have less than 10 hours of burn-in, and they are the best headphones I've ever owned or heard, so take this review with a grain of salt if you're used to listening to high end cans.
Also, I have to say that I auditioned HD600's too before buying, and apart from having a little bit less bass (still very powerful), I could not tell the difference, no matter which music was played. After reading loads of reviews, I was expecting that HD600's will be much brighter than HD650, but the difference is so tiny that it's not worth talking about. I chose HD650's for their looks, better cable and the fact that they are suppose to scale better with other gear.
After I came home, I plugged them in, and pressed play on the first song to listen to the headphones in silence and comfort. Song was "Dire Straits - Private Investigation", 24bit/96khz Vynil rip. I always like to start with that song, as it slowly introduces me to new headphones sound signature.
My impression after the song finished was: "VEILED SOUND?! What?!". Let me explain what I mean. If these are considered to be one of the darkest headphones, then I wonder how those that are considered bright sound...can they break glasses with their treble? Jokes aside, HD650's are brighter than my HD558's, considerably brighter. In fact, high frequencies seem to "pop out" of the sound more than low end frequencies do, which is opposite of what I was expecting. Acoustic guitars, cymbals and similar instruments all sound absolutely crystal clear, razor sharp, without any veil or darkness whatsoever, but they aren't uncomfortably bright. Just a perfect balance between sharpness and smoothness, crystal clear, but not uncomfortable. All of this might be because of the amplifier, I don't know, maybe the Headbox SEII is a very bright amp, but still, HD650's are brighter than HD558's (which aren't dark either, not by any standard).
Compared to HD558's, HD650's have about 2-3 times more bass punch, maybe even too powerful bass. Drums at the beginning of "Candy Dulfer - Lily was here" hit so freaking hard it takes some time to get used to the punch, its even uncomfortably punchy at first, or I'm just too used to HD558's mild bass. I heard some people on forum say that HD650's don't have a punchy bass...um, get your ears checked, will ya?
But, while drums sound powerful and energetic, guitar and saxophone remain crystal clear/detailed and warm/smooth in sax's case.
I've heard some DJ headphones, and some cheaper < €200 closed headphones that supposedly have a lot of bass (like M50's or SRH840's) but from my memory, their bass is silly compared to HD650's in terms of energy and sheer power/quantity behind it. Most important thing though, is that it feels very controlled, very punchy, very clear and textured, not "dark" or "muddled" like some reviews say. Its also fast enough for all the music I listen to. (something like Guns'n'Roses or Dire Straits is basically the fastest music I listen to).
Now to the mids. Keeping in mind that headphones aren't burned in, mids are still kinda iffy to me, its not that they're recessed or don't sound good, they just aren't as forward and in your face as on the HD558's, which are famed for that. I'm still very used to the HD558 sound, which is slightly bass/treble light with exaggerated mids. On 650's, mids are very smooth, detailed and have nice presence. They feel very full and natural. Male voices sound excellent in particular. Johnny Cash sends shivers trough my spine with these headphones.
But again, they aren't forward, but I can't say they're recessed either. They're nice and natural. If I wanted to be extremely anal and really nit-pick, I would maybe say I'd prefer them to be a liiiiiittle bit more forward. I guess that's why some people say these headphones are laid back.
Soundstage is decent. I can't really tell whether it's better than HD558's yet, but its not gonna knock your socks off either. I don't really care about soundstage that headphones themselves produce. If I want soundstage, I can turn on various Dolby Headphone modes in my Asus Xonar drivers and I can get excellent soundstage, great feeling of debth and great feeling of space even with my 100 dollars closed headphones. It really depends a lot on music too. For example, on "The ultimate demonstration disk" from Chesky Records, there are recordings specifically made to test the soundstage, and 650's are as good as 558's with those records, in other words, amazing. You can point your finger to each instrument and guess how far away from the microphone it is.
One more thing I really like is how dynamic records are. Some parts of songs, especially in classical, get really loud and energetic suddenly. It really gives a special feel to a lot of music.
That's it for now, I'll probably write up some more impressions after 100 hours of burn in, and maybe even before.
Bass extension: 10/10
Bass punch: 10/10
Bass control: 9,5/10
Mid quality: 10/10
Mid presence: 9,5/10
Highs: 10/10
Overall experience when listening: 10/10
Soundstage: depends on my sound cards settings and how the songs are recorded really, can be 5/10 or 10/10, so I'm not gonna give a final score on it.
So far, I have to say I'm really satisfied with this headphones + amp combo, it seems to work really nicely. Definitely worth the money and HD650's are definitely a bigger improvement over HD558's than I expected.
UPDATE 22.10.2011.
They have 40 hours of burn-in now, I tried them out just now, and I feel they sound a little brighter than before, not a big difference, but they just feel a bit more lively.
Also, I've tried them directly out of my D2X sound card, and WOW. This card, even though it doesn't have a dedicated headphone amplifier inside like STX does, can power HD650 almost as loud as when plugged into the Headbox amp. There is less bass clearly, but sound seems more opened and clearer than out of the amp. Also, the loudness surprised me. I usually have my system sound set to 50% in Xonar driver interface, and with those settings, I need to turn the amplifier all the way to 90% to get it really loud. However, when HD650's are plugged directly into the sound card, at 50% of volume, they're almost as loud as amplifier on full volume. After 60% it doesn't get louder anymore, it starts clipping and it clearly misses power, but its pretty impressive how loud it gets without distortion. Its as if i have to turn my amplifier to 90% of its volume for it NOT to make the output of my sound card quieter than it should be. Impressive piece of sound card definitely. I'm now even
more sure I'll be getting the Essence One once it gets released.
UPDATE 29.10.2011.
After 200 hours of burn-in, I can can say that these headphones are now...enchanting...brilliant. Just amazingly soothing and relaxing to listen to. Its hard to describe, but even just wearing them on my head is pleasing. They don't clamp too hard once you adjust them properly, ear pads are extremely soft, there's not a single point on my head which is uncomfortable, even when wearing these for 4-5 hours straight.
As far as sound matter, I think this sound signature is as perfect as it gets, at least to my ears. Not too dark, not too bright, just right. Bass goes deep and it simply envelops you. It actually gives you a physically pleasing sensation on your ears and head when you listen to jazz or classical with smooth deep bass lines. I find myself listening to music that I usually dont listen to, just because there are bass lines somewhere in the song, thats how nice HD650's bass is. Its not basshead boomy bass, its really pleasant, smooth, soft, big, and enveloping bass. But it can be fast and punchy too. For example, even when plugged directly into my sound card, these headphones play Van Halen - Hot for teacher very loudly and clearly, not missing a single beat. People familiar with this song will know its got quite a pace and a lot of drums beating. Everything sounds very clear on HD650's, every hit of the drums is clearly presented, punchy and quick. So, I really don't understand why some people claim HD650's are slow sounding.
I mentioned in my first impressions section that I found mids to be slightly recessed. Well, now that I'm used to it, I see they're actually more natural than in HD558's. When I put my HD558's on, its sounds like a bunch of very loud mid's, some weak but loose bass and unclear rolled off highs. Its amazing how big of a difference it is going from HD650's to HD558's. It feels like a very smaller difference when going from 558's to 650's.
If there was one thing I'd change about these headphones, it would be the soundstage. I know its almost entirely due to my realitvely bad sound card and amplifer, follow by the stock HD650's cable which apparanetly ruins soundstage completely. I plan to change my amp and sound card for a Asus Xonar Essence One as soon as it gets released, which apparently has amazing soundstange and sound amazing overall. If that won't be enough, Cardas cable will come, and probably Musical Fidelity M1HPA amp. These headphones are definitely keepers for me. I now know why they're on the market for so long and why they have so many faithful users. They're expensive, but I feel my money was better spent than with any other headphones I had.
Setup:
Lossless files trough Foobar2000 with Asio --> Asus Xonar D2X --> Pro-ject Headbox SEII --> shiny headphones.
Amplifier:
This is going to be short, let me just say, this amplifier really surprised me. I was expecting it to not have the power to run these headphones after being disappointed by its lack of power with cheap headphones, but it does, more than enough. One tiny detail that bothers me though.... volume control seems to increase power exponentially, if you know what I mean. For example, you have turn it to about 50% to get any volume, to about 70% to get a comfortably loud listening volume, and after that it just gets louder and louder. Its too loud to listen for longer then a few seconds on max volume, but still crystal clear and without absolutely any distortion whatsoever, it seems to run HD650's effortlessly. There isn't much headroom, its not like it pushes headphones to their limit when the volume knob is on 50%, but its more than loud enough for anyone with decent hearing ability...and for those who want to keep their hearing ability.
I haven't tried HD650's with a better amp obviously, but IMHO, even if this was the best sound possible to get out of these headphones, I would not be disappointed. While this amp doesn't work properly with low impedance headphones due to its high output impedance (30 ohm), it seems to be very nice with high impedance ones. But that's enough about the amp, this is a headphone section of forum. The point is, if you have HD650's and seek a nice entry level amp for around 250 dollars, I can recommend the Headbox SEII.
Headphones:
I'm not gonna mess about and talk about comfort, build quality, cable, price (€500), etc..... "everyone" here knows "everything" about these headphones anyway. I'm only gonna talk about sound...since my impressions of the sound are somewhat different than most reviews portray it.
NOTE: These headphones have less than 10 hours of burn-in, and they are the best headphones I've ever owned or heard, so take this review with a grain of salt if you're used to listening to high end cans.
Also, I have to say that I auditioned HD600's too before buying, and apart from having a little bit less bass (still very powerful), I could not tell the difference, no matter which music was played. After reading loads of reviews, I was expecting that HD600's will be much brighter than HD650, but the difference is so tiny that it's not worth talking about. I chose HD650's for their looks, better cable and the fact that they are suppose to scale better with other gear.
After I came home, I plugged them in, and pressed play on the first song to listen to the headphones in silence and comfort. Song was "Dire Straits - Private Investigation", 24bit/96khz Vynil rip. I always like to start with that song, as it slowly introduces me to new headphones sound signature.
My impression after the song finished was: "VEILED SOUND?! What?!". Let me explain what I mean. If these are considered to be one of the darkest headphones, then I wonder how those that are considered bright sound...can they break glasses with their treble? Jokes aside, HD650's are brighter than my HD558's, considerably brighter. In fact, high frequencies seem to "pop out" of the sound more than low end frequencies do, which is opposite of what I was expecting. Acoustic guitars, cymbals and similar instruments all sound absolutely crystal clear, razor sharp, without any veil or darkness whatsoever, but they aren't uncomfortably bright. Just a perfect balance between sharpness and smoothness, crystal clear, but not uncomfortable. All of this might be because of the amplifier, I don't know, maybe the Headbox SEII is a very bright amp, but still, HD650's are brighter than HD558's (which aren't dark either, not by any standard).
Compared to HD558's, HD650's have about 2-3 times more bass punch, maybe even too powerful bass. Drums at the beginning of "Candy Dulfer - Lily was here" hit so freaking hard it takes some time to get used to the punch, its even uncomfortably punchy at first, or I'm just too used to HD558's mild bass. I heard some people on forum say that HD650's don't have a punchy bass...um, get your ears checked, will ya?
But, while drums sound powerful and energetic, guitar and saxophone remain crystal clear/detailed and warm/smooth in sax's case.
I've heard some DJ headphones, and some cheaper < €200 closed headphones that supposedly have a lot of bass (like M50's or SRH840's) but from my memory, their bass is silly compared to HD650's in terms of energy and sheer power/quantity behind it. Most important thing though, is that it feels very controlled, very punchy, very clear and textured, not "dark" or "muddled" like some reviews say. Its also fast enough for all the music I listen to. (something like Guns'n'Roses or Dire Straits is basically the fastest music I listen to).
Now to the mids. Keeping in mind that headphones aren't burned in, mids are still kinda iffy to me, its not that they're recessed or don't sound good, they just aren't as forward and in your face as on the HD558's, which are famed for that. I'm still very used to the HD558 sound, which is slightly bass/treble light with exaggerated mids. On 650's, mids are very smooth, detailed and have nice presence. They feel very full and natural. Male voices sound excellent in particular. Johnny Cash sends shivers trough my spine with these headphones.
But again, they aren't forward, but I can't say they're recessed either. They're nice and natural. If I wanted to be extremely anal and really nit-pick, I would maybe say I'd prefer them to be a liiiiiittle bit more forward. I guess that's why some people say these headphones are laid back.
Soundstage is decent. I can't really tell whether it's better than HD558's yet, but its not gonna knock your socks off either. I don't really care about soundstage that headphones themselves produce. If I want soundstage, I can turn on various Dolby Headphone modes in my Asus Xonar drivers and I can get excellent soundstage, great feeling of debth and great feeling of space even with my 100 dollars closed headphones. It really depends a lot on music too. For example, on "The ultimate demonstration disk" from Chesky Records, there are recordings specifically made to test the soundstage, and 650's are as good as 558's with those records, in other words, amazing. You can point your finger to each instrument and guess how far away from the microphone it is.
One more thing I really like is how dynamic records are. Some parts of songs, especially in classical, get really loud and energetic suddenly. It really gives a special feel to a lot of music.
That's it for now, I'll probably write up some more impressions after 100 hours of burn in, and maybe even before.
Bass extension: 10/10
Bass punch: 10/10
Bass control: 9,5/10
Mid quality: 10/10
Mid presence: 9,5/10
Highs: 10/10
Overall experience when listening: 10/10
Soundstage: depends on my sound cards settings and how the songs are recorded really, can be 5/10 or 10/10, so I'm not gonna give a final score on it.
So far, I have to say I'm really satisfied with this headphones + amp combo, it seems to work really nicely. Definitely worth the money and HD650's are definitely a bigger improvement over HD558's than I expected.
UPDATE 22.10.2011.
They have 40 hours of burn-in now, I tried them out just now, and I feel they sound a little brighter than before, not a big difference, but they just feel a bit more lively.
Also, I've tried them directly out of my D2X sound card, and WOW. This card, even though it doesn't have a dedicated headphone amplifier inside like STX does, can power HD650 almost as loud as when plugged into the Headbox amp. There is less bass clearly, but sound seems more opened and clearer than out of the amp. Also, the loudness surprised me. I usually have my system sound set to 50% in Xonar driver interface, and with those settings, I need to turn the amplifier all the way to 90% to get it really loud. However, when HD650's are plugged directly into the sound card, at 50% of volume, they're almost as loud as amplifier on full volume. After 60% it doesn't get louder anymore, it starts clipping and it clearly misses power, but its pretty impressive how loud it gets without distortion. Its as if i have to turn my amplifier to 90% of its volume for it NOT to make the output of my sound card quieter than it should be. Impressive piece of sound card definitely. I'm now even
more sure I'll be getting the Essence One once it gets released.
UPDATE 29.10.2011.
After 200 hours of burn-in, I can can say that these headphones are now...enchanting...brilliant. Just amazingly soothing and relaxing to listen to. Its hard to describe, but even just wearing them on my head is pleasing. They don't clamp too hard once you adjust them properly, ear pads are extremely soft, there's not a single point on my head which is uncomfortable, even when wearing these for 4-5 hours straight.
As far as sound matter, I think this sound signature is as perfect as it gets, at least to my ears. Not too dark, not too bright, just right. Bass goes deep and it simply envelops you. It actually gives you a physically pleasing sensation on your ears and head when you listen to jazz or classical with smooth deep bass lines. I find myself listening to music that I usually dont listen to, just because there are bass lines somewhere in the song, thats how nice HD650's bass is. Its not basshead boomy bass, its really pleasant, smooth, soft, big, and enveloping bass. But it can be fast and punchy too. For example, even when plugged directly into my sound card, these headphones play Van Halen - Hot for teacher very loudly and clearly, not missing a single beat. People familiar with this song will know its got quite a pace and a lot of drums beating. Everything sounds very clear on HD650's, every hit of the drums is clearly presented, punchy and quick. So, I really don't understand why some people claim HD650's are slow sounding.
I mentioned in my first impressions section that I found mids to be slightly recessed. Well, now that I'm used to it, I see they're actually more natural than in HD558's. When I put my HD558's on, its sounds like a bunch of very loud mid's, some weak but loose bass and unclear rolled off highs. Its amazing how big of a difference it is going from HD650's to HD558's. It feels like a very smaller difference when going from 558's to 650's.
If there was one thing I'd change about these headphones, it would be the soundstage. I know its almost entirely due to my realitvely bad sound card and amplifer, follow by the stock HD650's cable which apparanetly ruins soundstage completely. I plan to change my amp and sound card for a Asus Xonar Essence One as soon as it gets released, which apparently has amazing soundstange and sound amazing overall. If that won't be enough, Cardas cable will come, and probably Musical Fidelity M1HPA amp. These headphones are definitely keepers for me. I now know why they're on the market for so long and why they have so many faithful users. They're expensive, but I feel my money was better spent than with any other headphones I had.
