[SoulSyde]

Maybe I've been here too long and my perception of reality is a bit warped, but I feel like the amount of forum traffic here has diminished over the past few years.  I remember a time where I could hardly keep up with the amount of new threads, never mind the replies.  Now, the activity seems to move at a snails pace.
 
Maybe the audiophile market has hit its saturation point?  Maybe the changes in the economy have affected our purchase behavior, thus affecting the amount of web traffic to the site?  Do you agree?
 
What say you?

 

[Uncle Erik]

Yes, I think you're right. There is still quite a bit of activity and new products roll out, but I think the economy has pushed down interest in luxury goods across the board.

Quite a few manufacturers have folded and audio shops are dwindling.

One scary bit of anecdotal evidence is from my parents. For several years, they've been taking the grandkids each summer for a week at various dude ranches. (They did the same for me and my sister - great memories!)

Anyhow, they used to have trouble booking a week before '08. Last year, they were one of two families at a particular ranch. One that would have 40-50 families each week in the good times. Many are shutting down.

Anecdotal, yes, but things are not good.

I don't think we'll get back to good times for another 20-30 years. The fundamentals are bad and have not been addressed. I won't go further because that's politics. But it's why I went for my "final" audio rig a couple years ago. I decided to go all in because I think a lot of high-end stuff won't be in production a few years on. Further, it might be a long while before high-end products are developed and marketed again.

Yes, I know that's very pessimistic. But the fundamentals are a mess and I don't see any easy way out.

 

[Elysian]

Whenever I read posts from members of the trade (such as Tyll's great series on how he got his dream job), it seems like almost everyone is hurting, and even a phenomenal up-and-comer like Schiit would almost certainly be pushing even more units if people had more disposable income available.
 
I'm surprised prices in the high-end ($2000+ devices) haven't gone down on the used market, but low and mid-fi definitely seem to have been pushed downwards, evidenced by how competitive the $100-300 segment is across headphones, amps, DACs, and converters.  Most of the discussion on the site also targets that kind of gear, which makes sense since there are a lot of students on HF.  But, I'm still surprised that there's not more discussion about the high-end gear, much less posts on the trade forums.  Maybe people are holding onto their gear longer and upgrade cycles have lengthened?
 
EDIT: Ran across this thread which has a lot of related discussion and good insight: http://www.head-fi.org/t/508413/sound-by-singer-to-close

 

[sourced]

Argh. I wrote a lengthy post but I goofed and it's gone now. In short,
 
The high-end market is much better insulated from the whims of the general market, both on the buyer end and the seller end. The sellers are more likely to be financially stable: I doubt someone with doubts of financial stability (even without foreseeing the economic crisis) would buy such a high-end system to begin with. Their reasons for selling probably won't include want of money, so why should they take a lower price? On the other end, the buyers in this market aren't buying to downgrade. They aren't buying to save money. Just my 2 cents. I've had a glass of wine so I apologize for grammatical errors.

 

[bcasey25raptor]

I never thought i would say this but i am worried that uncle erik might be right. Now at the same time in my city we are getting so many new stores and highrise buildings are just starting to pick up again. So maybe there is hope. The economy hasn't effected Canada as much as a lot of other places. We are pretty stable here.

 

[wje]

Quote:

Argh. I wrote a lengthy post but I goofed and it's gone now. In short,
 
The high-end market is much better insulated from the whims of the general market, both on the buyer end and the seller end. The sellers are more likely to be financially stable: I doubt someone with doubts of financial stability (even without foreseeing the economic crisis) would buy such a high-end system to begin with. Their reasons for selling probably won't include want of money, so why should they take a lower price? On the other end, the buyers in this market aren't buying to downgrade. They aren't buying to save money. Just my 2 cents. I've had a glass of wine so I apologize for grammatical errors.

Actually, I live in the suburbs of Washington, DC.  We've essentially lost 80%+ of our high-end audio shops in the last 3 years.  These were dealers of B&W, Focal, Conrad Johnson, McIntosh, Musical Fidelity,  and too many other good / great brands that slip my mind.  I really wouldn't say the economy killed off these dealers, but real estate did.  People no longer had equity in their homes that they could tap to buy the fun stuff.  The counties around me are some of the counties that frequently get mentioned for having some of the highest incomes per county in the U.S. - yet, the audio dealers still were not able to weather the events.
 
 
 

 

[BotByte]

Quote:

Actually, I live in the suburbs of Washington, DC.  We've essentially lost 80%+ of our high-end audio shops in the last 3 years.  These were dealers of B&W, Focal, Conrad Johnson, McIntosh, Musical Fidelity,  and too many other good / great brands that slip my mind.  I really wouldn't say the economy killed off these dealers, but real estate did.  People no longer had equity in their homes that they could tap to buy the fun stuff.  The counties around me are some of the counties that frequently get mentioned for having some of the highest incomes per county in the U.S. - yet, the audio dealers still were not able to weather the events.
 
 
 

At least you have a audio shop.
 
I've got a fry's. And I can't go back there anymore since I sent two security guards to the hospital.
 
My town used to be a huge spot to find High end equipment. My friend Joe talks about how he's seen the entire city degrade for the last 60 years.
 
EDIT: btw, I've got a BestBuy, Walmart, Radioshack. Ain't that fun?

 

[wje]

Quote:

Originally Posted by BotByte /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
At least you have a audio shop.
 
I've got a fry's. And I can't go back there anymore since I sent two security guards to the hospital.
 
My town used to be a huge spot to find High end equipment. My friend Joe talks about how he's seen the entire city degrade for the last 60 years.
 
EDIT: btw, I've got a BestBuy, Walmart, Radioshack. Ain't that fun?

Yeah, but the shops that remain feature Linn speakers (not my taste or style), but they do sell Grado.  Another shop, which is further away features DynAudio Speakers and Bryston amps.  I like that shop as they make you feel comfortable when you're in there.
 
Personally, I think it's BestBuy, Costco, Walmart and others like them that killed off most of the retailers.  BestBuy wanted that domination, now they're not doing so well in regards to sales and financial performance.  I can deal with Radio Shack as I only buy soldering irons, solder and some clips every now and then from them.  I never buy their electronics - if you could even call what they sell electronics anymore.
 

 

[BotByte]

Quote:

Yeah, but the shops that remain feature Linn speakers (not my taste or style), but they do sell Grado.  Another shop, which is further away features DynAudio Speakers and Bryston amps.  I like that shop as they make you feel comfortable when you're in there.
 
Personally, I think it's BestBuy, Costco, Walmart and others like them that killed off most of the retailers.  BestBuy wanted that domination, now they're not doing so well in regards to sales and financial performance.  I can deal with Radio Shack as I only buy soldering irons, solder and some clips every now and then from them.  I never buy their electronics - if you could even call what they sell electronics anymore.
 

Tell you a story:
 
I was dating this girl a while back, she lived on Daddy's money. But she loves to travel and lives in Oregon. So she'd pay for a plane ticket to send me up there every weekend after she moved. I used to go to this little hole-in-the-wall record shop. You walk in and Jack goes "how are you today" it was great. You ask him what you'd like to hear "oh, this band" he sold used, LP's, CD, cassette. He put on free live shows, some of locals bands, I also saw some old popular bands that still tours. It was great.
 
Now Bestbuy is what you need to go for. They don't even have listening stations anymore. Remember when you could take a CD and check the barcode to listen to a random track. I liked that too. But now it's either digital download or the expensive CD's.
 
Radioshack sucks only if the item you want isn't on sale. Black media and tools are cheap WHEN ON SALE.

 

[bcasey25raptor]

Quote:

Tell you a story:
 
I was dating this girl a while back, she lived on Daddy's money. But she loves to travel and lives in Oregon. So she'd pay for a plane ticket to send me up there every weekend after she moved. I used to go to this little hole-in-the-wall record shop. You walk in and Jack goes "how are you today" it was great. You ask him what you'd like to hear "oh, this band" he sold used, LP's, CD, cassette. He put on free live shows, some of locals bands, I also saw some old popular bands that still tours. It was great.
 
Now Bestbuy is what you need to go for. They don't even have listening stations anymore. Remember when you could take a CD and check the barcode to listen to a random track. I liked that too. But now it's either digital download or the expensive CD's.
 
Radioshack sucks only if the item you want isn't on sale. Black media and tools are cheap WHEN ON SALE.

I got my shure srh840 at best buy for $130Canadian. You just need to buy things when there on sale.

 

[BotByte]

Quote:

I got my shure srh840 at best buy for $130Canadian. You just need to buy things when there on sale.

I'd rather buy from Cow Boom, their daily deals are worth checking everyday.
 
Actually, Fry's carried Shure, AKG and Monster (not just beats)
 

 

[bcasey25raptor]

Quote:

I'd rather buy from Cow Boom, their daily deals are worth checking everyday.
 
Actually, Fry's carried Shure, AKG and Monster (not just beats)
 

Well best buy was my only option apart from ordering online.
 
 

 

[Uncle Erik]

I never thought i would say this but i am worried that uncle erik might be right. Now at the same time in my city we are getting so many new stores and highrise buildings are just starting to pick up again. So maybe there is hope. The economy hasn't effected Canada as much as a lot of other places. We are pretty stable here.

I sure hope Canada is OK. My concern is that Canada is both the biggest trading partner and (I think) the investor in the US, but that might be the UK. But Canadians are still deeply invested here.

The EU is a bit spooky and I'm not happy with the way the '08 crisis was handled (assuming "handling" is even the right word) in the US. Things are delicate and I don't know if things will stabilize before something unexpected knocks everything off kilter. Canada might get sucked into the mess, through no fault of its own. But it's too uncertain to predict anything.

I've been shifting to tangible investments (real property, tools, useful things) and eliminating debt. I'm also thinking hard about a career change to something more stable. A local school district is hiring people for teaching/special ed and will pick up the cost of a Master's in Education. Not what I planned to do, but I don't think I'd be a victim of market vagaries again. (And I'm a sucker for free education, anyway. ) I'll drop off the application next week, see what happens and make a decision. Might also be fun because my mother has taught for close to 45 years and my sister is a principal now working on an Ed.D. I figure I could eventually wrangle my way into a legal/accounting position at an administrative level, too. People are loathe to cut education in the US, so this might be a safe path.

 

[bcasey25raptor]

Quote:

:cheers:

I sure hope Canada is OK. My concern is that Canada is both the biggest trading partner and (I think) the investor in the US, but that might be the UK. But Canadians are still deeply invested here.

The EU is a bit spooky and I'm not happy with the way the '08 crisis was handled (assuming "handling" is even the right word) in the US. Things are delicate and I don't know if things will stabilize before something unexpected knocks everything off kilter. Canada might get sucked into the mess, through no fault of its own. But it's too uncertain to predict anything.

I've been shifting to tangible investments (real property, tools, useful things) and eliminating debt. I'm also thinking hard about a career change to something more stable. A local school district is hiring people for teaching/special ed and will pick up the cost of a Master's in Education. Not what I planned to do, but I don't think I'd be a victim of market vagaries again. (And I'm a sucker for free education, anyway.

) I'll drop off the application next week, see what happens and make a decision.

More trade occurs on the canada-us border then anywhere else in the world. We supply you with 18% of your oil. We are your largest provider of oil and a large exporter of lumber.
 

 

[Uncle Erik]

Yes, and that is a wonderful thing.

A good argument can be made that the best thing that ever happened to the US is that there's a stable and peaceful neighbor up north.

No one really notices that, but when you look at the endless state conflicts in other parts of the world, it's wonderful. There are occasional trade dustups, but the partnership is remarkably good.