[Mindless]

Reading around a bit more about these headphones I've heard people mention the 'infamous' highs of Grado headphones. I took a look at the graphs over at HeadRoom.

(HD600 added for comparison to my current cans)

Looking at the bass it sure looks punchy and powerful, almost bass heavy, but I like my rock music bassy (but not overly ofcourse) so it's not a problem. However, the highs got me curious. The peak in the upper mid-range looks almost disturbing. I know the peaks and dips are supposed weigh eachother out, which they do when looking at the graph. Still, it dosen't keep me from wondering "Is this peak an issue?". Does it make you want to grind your teeth? If it does, would a aftermarket cable like the Silver or Black Dragon fix it?

Speaking of the cables, how would they change the characteristics of the phones? Would this peak become more rolled off and less noticeable or so to say if I got the cans with the Silver or Black Dragon? Also, what are the key differences in the characteristics (with these cans) between the Silver and Black Dragon? The Silver Dragon I have hooked up to my HD600 cans leans more towards the bright side I guess, but they rolled off thoes sharp highs considerably and added quite a bit of punch in the lower registry of the phones. Should I expect something similar with the GS1000?

Comments would be most appreciated.

 

[guynamedjohn]

The highs were definitely a problem for me. For some tracks I found the gs-1000 to be absolutely unlistenable. Violins became assault weapons - ripping out my eardrums. Since I don't think "unlistenable" is a word that should ever apply to a $1000 set of cans, I sold them to another headfier - hopefully he had more luck than I did.

Perhaps my problem was with amp synergy (or lack thereof) - who knows. I felt that the gs-1000 sounded sooo far from "right" that it wasn't worth trying to fix.

I understand that John Grado doesn't use graphs and measurements when designing his headphones. I've got different ears, you've got different ears, so ymmv.

Just my 2-cents.

 

[Blackmore]

Just forget about GS1 if you want to ROCK, dont even try. Buy SR225 and be happy with them.
GS1000 are JAZZ headphones, IMO. I do enjoy them with POP or AMBIENT as well, but JAZZ is definitely the best with them, I LOVE IT A LOT.
I can not call them all around phones for 100%, so SR225 in the future for my ROCK records. Sometimes I think to get RS2 someday again to, cos they are very special phones for me.
Good luck

 

[rsaavedra]

I doubt any aftermarket cable will flatten such a prominent upper-mid treble response leaving the rest of the spectrum equal.

The response of the GS1000 is allegedly convenient for low volume listening levels. Makes sense, since frequency responses are volume dependent, and our ears perceive bass and treble less prominently at lower volumes. So a headphone with a bowl-shaped frequency response -prominent bass and treble but recessed mids, like the GS1000- in general will present a more even response at lower volumes.

 

[Mercuttio]

System matching is key. The sibilance on the GS1000 can be a real issue if you're not paying attention to the quality of your source and amp.

 

[M0T0XGUY]

I hate to base a headphone's sound signature solely on its frequency response graph, so although they're interesting to read and look at, to me there's no point in purchasing a set of cans without first auditioning them.

That out of the way, I have to agree with Blackmore here; to me the GS-1000's were definitly not a pair of rock headphones. They were extremely sibilant in most of the classic rock recordings I brought along for demoing, and vocals seemed rather recessed, especially for a Grado. Classical was better, although the highs still managed to put me off the GS-1000's sound signature, so I gave them a pass. If rock is what you're mainly listening to, I'd suggest going for a set of RS-1's instead, or 225's if you want to save a bit of cash.

 

[adanac061]

The peak is not too far off the 325i's peak. In fact going through the graphs that's the closest I could find.

Which only adds to my suspicion that the GS1k is just a tweaked 325i driver with jumbo/bagle pads.

 

[Patu]

I have an issue with GS1000 highs. They've always been sibilant to me.

Of course people always blame the rest of the equipment when I say GS1000 is sibilant, but I haven't heard them with a system in which they wouldn't be sibilant. Even custom built Singlepower Supra with Wadia 8xx (can't remember the exact model) CDP couldn't kill the sibilance. This setup is very warm and rich sounding with all the other headphones I've used with it. It works very well with other Grado headphones and actually I think my friend has built it mainly Grado headphones in his mind. GS1000 was best in this system but still I couldn't stand the highs.

I've never looked at the frequency response graph of GS1000 but it sure looks like a killer for your eardrums.

 

[Mindless]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rsaavedra /img/forum/go_quote.gif I doubt any aftermarket cable will flatten such a prominent upper-mid treble response leaving the rest of the spectrum equal. The response of the GS1000 is allegedly convenient for low volume listening levels. Makes sense, since frequency responses are volume dependent, and our ears perceive bass and treble less prominently at lower volumes. So a headphone with a bowl-shaped frequency response -prominent bass and treble but recessed mids, like the GS1000- in general will present a more even response at lower volumes.

Alright. Makes sense with the lower volume as both the lower and upper register has a quite high amplitude.

Blackmore: Actually, I adapt my music according to my headphones. I listen to what sounds good and I like it that way. Keeps music interesting for me and it helps me discover new genres of music as I'm always looking for new things to listen to.

Rock is only one one of my favourite music genres, I don't expect the cans to fit all my needs, just wouldn't be fair.

Anyway, thanks for all the feedback, but I didn't expect to see this many negative (or so to say) comments about the cans. HiFi magazines here in Europe have called them the "Best we've heard." so it's quite surprising, yet at the same time, it's not. We all have different ears and preferences.

As I can't audition / try the phones before buying them (I live 620 miles from the closest place that retail them) so I'll pretty much be buying the pig in the sack.

For amps I've been looking at the MPX3, EXTREME and Corda OPERA, however, I intend to try the cans on my current amp before deciding on any of thoes. For sources I've been looking at NAD C542, Marantz SA-7001 KI Signature and Advance Acoustics MCD-203II, but again, I live in a small town far away from any real 'civilization' so trying some of this stuff out will be hard, if not impossible.

Anyone that can point me in the right direction when it comes to amps? Are the GS1000 tube or solid state phones?

Any help would be much appreciated.

 

[rsaavedra]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mindless /img/forum/go_quote.gif but I didn't expect to see this many negative (or so to say) comments about the cans. HiFi magazines here in Europe have called them the "Best we've heard." so it's quite surprising

Not quite surprising. This is Head-Fi. I would especulate that the magnitude of collective exposure and expertise with headphones here in HeadFi is probably orders of magnitude larger than the exposure of pretty much all hi fi magazine reviewers put together.

Moreover, if this or that magazine called X headphone the best they've heard ever says very little about headphones X. Pretty much all magazine reviews of high-end equipment state superlatives and "best we've heard" and "nothing has ever sounded this good" about the reviewed equipment, whether amps, speakers, sources, cables, or headphones.

 

[Zanth]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mindless /img/forum/go_quote.gif Anyone that can point me in the right direction when it comes to amps? Are the GS1000 tube or solid state phones? Any help would be much appreciated.

I don't agree that they would be tube or ss dependent per se, but I am a tube man myself and as such, usually pair my Grados with straight tube amp or a hybrid.

The Melos line of amps are an overall hit with Grados. They are out of production, reliability varies from unit to unit but the upgrade path on these things is great and many, including myself, have had wonderful success on the relative cheap. The Melos amps use a pair of 6dj8s and is a hybrid amp with FET outputs.

The Maple Tree Audio line of amps are very well regarded with Grados as well and the tube compliments provide flexibility in overall sound with a warm side of neutral house sound, tight bass and extended highs swap in the tube of choice and one can flavour the sound to one's liking. These are all tube designs in PP configuration.

Many around here claim that the Single Power amps are the best tube headphone amps or at least that this company consistently puts out excellent performers. That said, I've noticed quite a few folks who have a mega-buck SP amp and when they try the GS-1000's they aren't too happy with the sound. The nice thing is that Mikhail can tailor an amp to one's sonic preference it just might take a little longer to obtain the amp.

My personal favourite amp for Grados and the GS-1000's in particular is the Ear HP4. This is a pricey amp when bought new and is rarely seen used. It is a SET design using 2 pairs of 6sl7's. The tubes are comparatively cheaper to most of the tubes using in headphone amps and the amp itself offers quite a bit of power (1 true W and with the ability of listening to 4 headphones at a time).

I've had a number of head-fiers and non-head-fier but audiophiles and music lovers come by my place and no one has mentioned my system being bright. No one has commented on piercing highs from the GS-1000's. In fact, many feel the GS-1000's are more neutral sounding and thus balanced, than my RS-1's or PS-1's. It's about system synergy, component matching etc.

Comments were made from Grado lovers like myself, Sennheiser lovers, folks that despise headphones and folks that are neither headphone lovers or haters, but are most definitely speaker fans. The overall comment is usually that these headphones are the closest to a speaker sound they have personally heard. Since I nor any of these folks have heard the K1000's, but have heard quite a variety of other phones, it is a testament to the signature of the cans.

As for rocking out, again it depends on the system. If one wants a very proximate sound experience, that onstage sound, then the GS-1000's won't offer that, but they were not designed to. However, rocking out does not necessarily mean onstage soundstaging either. I would concentrate on tone, energy and particularly PRaT when describing "rocking out" and the GS-1000's at least in my system, have plenty of PRaT and energy.

The big question will be...do you want to risk dropping a large enough sum of cash on phones that you may or may not like? Well, for most around here, that is an issue with a lot of purchases and not unique to the GS-1000's. If I had dropped 2k on a Baby O without hearing I would have been very disappointed with my purchase compared with dropping 3k+ on an Omega II system without hearing. Even still, for me personally, any money on electrostats would be an overall disappointment when I would rather the sound of some Senn 6x0's and a nice tube amp or some Grados etc.

My suggestion is if you can't have a trial listen, then buy used from here or Audiogon, that way if you have to resell you will likely recoup nearly all of your expenses.

 

[b0dhi]

Headroom's GS1000 graph has been an anomaly for me. My ears and the graph simply don't agree. The highs on the actual headphones are fairly neutral once burnt in. Certainly not strident by any measure.

That huge peak between 8-10khz I have searched long and hard for, EQing high and low, and it simply isn't there in my system, either running through my M3 amp or straight out of my sound card. If it exists, it must have some function in producing the soundstage because if I attenuate that region the sound becomes veiled, distant and sounds wrong. Whatever it is, it needs to be there. But...

What I have noticed is a small peak between 5-7Khz. This is not the big 17dB mountain in the Headroom graph. It only becomes strident at very high volumes though, and only on some recordings. EQing this region down by 1.5dB "fixes" it, but I find it unneccessary as long as the recording is well mastered. It's a minor issue for me.

I wouldn't recommend them if Rock is the only genre they will be used for. For my tastes they perform wonderfully for trance, IDM, classical, jazz and just about anything with some atmosphere or "space", including atmospheric Metal, but for some reason the seperation and layering the GS presents doesn't sound quite "right" with most Rock. YMMV.

EDIT: Just want to point out that mine use a balanced BD cable and the stock one might sound slightly different.

 

[M0T0XGUY]

Quote:

Originally Posted by b0dhi /img/forum/go_quote.gif Headroom's GS1000 graph has been an anomaly for me. My ears and the graph simply don't agree. The highs on the actual headphones are fairly neutral once burnt in. Certainly not strident by any measure. That huge peak between 8-10khz I have searched long and hard for, EQing high and low, and it simply isn't there in my system, either running through my M3 amp or straight out of my sound card. If it exists, it must have some function in producing the soundstage because if I attenuate that region the sound becomes veiled, distant and sounds wrong. Whatever it is, it needs to be there. But... What I have noticed is a small peak between 5-7Khz. This is not the big 17dB mountain in the Headroom graph. It only becomes strident at very high volumes though, and only on some recordings. EQing this region down by 1.5dB "fixes" it, but I find it unneccessary as long as the recording is well mastered. It's a minor issue for me. I wouldn't recommend them if Rock is the only genre they will be used for. For my tastes they perform wonderfully for trance, IDM, classical, jazz and just about anything with some atmosphere or "space", including atmospheric Metal, but for some reason the seperation and layering the GS presents doesn't sound quite "right" with most Rock. YMMV. EDIT: Just want to point out that mine use a balanced BD cable and the stock one might sound slightly different.

Another reason why everyone should audition headphones before purchasing, in lieu of relying on frequency response charts as reference. In reality, your ears are the response graph; if you hear sibilant highs, than there's a peak in the upper frequency spectrum. If you hear neutral highs, than you can consider the "graph's" line to be relatively flat in that area; its entirely up to your brain and ears.

So, to the OP, anyone of us can sit here and give you conflicting answers about the question you're asking, but why not try the GS-1000's for yourself and create your own opinions on how the Grado's sound?

 

[b0dhi]

Quote:

Originally Posted by adanac061 /img/forum/go_quote.gif The peak is not too far off the 325i's peak. In fact going through the graphs that's the closest I could find. Which only adds to my suspicion that the GS1k is just a tweaked 325i driver with jumbo/bagle pads.

Have you heard the 325i with the Bagels? It sounds nothing like the GS. Or the GS with bowls/flats? Far from a 325i with bowls/flats. The sound at the ears and the displacement of the drivers are two very different things in this case. I can tell you the GS driver is much much closer to the PS-1 driver than to the 325i driver because that diaphragm is doing some serious excursion to produce that much bass so far from the ear, and anyone who's heard them with the flats can attest to that

 

[Zanth]

Quote:

Originally Posted by b0dhi /img/forum/go_quote.gif Have you heard the 325i with the Bagels? It sounds nothing like the GS. Or the GS with bowls/flats? Far from a 325i with bowls/flats. The sound at the ears and the displacement of the drivers are two very different things in this case. I can tell you the GS driver is much much closer to the PS-1 driver than to the 325i driver because that diaphragm is doing some serious excursion to produce that much bass so far from the ear, and anyone who's heard them with the flats can attest to that

Indeed, the GS-1000's sound closer to PS-1's with the superbowls than the 325i's with the superbowls.