[crixnet]

Hi,
 
For a while now, I've lurked in the Head-Fi shadows and I've picked up a lot of good info from some very knowledgable folks here. Now I'd like to introduce myself and ask for some advice directly.
 

By way of gear background, I'm a relative newbie to the audiophile world, but I have been a musician and am a video producer with a long history and knowledge of music. My listening tastes include jazz, acoustic, rock, blues and classical. What I don't listen to is Hip Hop, rap, electronic.

 

My current gear setup is a late-2013 MacBook Pro Retina>Geek Out 1000>Philips X2 Fidelio cans. I also have a Pono for mobile listening.
 

My future 'phones could well be Fostex TH900, HE-560 and/or Audeze EL-8 (the latter pending a good casting couch session when they eventually materialize). Others could make the list.
 
Now to the good Schiit advice I need.
 
Assuming that money is no object (which, in my case, it actually is, but let's just go with it for now), would I be better served with a Magni2/Modi2 Uber stack or with a Bitfrost/Asgard 2 stack, or with some unholy coupling of any two of these beasts?

I'm set on the active speaker front, so that's not an issue.

 

Now, I realize that the M2/M2 Uber stack would do the trick quite handily for the foreseeable term.

 

However, I would like your insights into what exactly my throwing extra buckage towards the upgradable-Bitfrost/Asgard2 stack would yield me and my cans in actual, no-s**t sound quality/performance over their little bros. And versus my Geek Out 1000?

 

I appreciate the great info I've gleaned from lurking here and I look forward to learning more from you kind, more experienced 'phile folks, so please let me know your thoughts.

 

Thanks in advance for the help!

 

[cel4145]

I used to have the Asgard 2. Nice amp, just ran a bit too hot for me since it is Class A. Since then, the Magni 2 Uber has come out. Haven't heard it, but seems like it might perform as well as the Asgard 2 in terms of driving headphones. That's the most important thing to consider is if the amp you buy will power the headphones you might buy. Might want to look around in these two threads:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/746128/the-schiitstorm-next-gen-magni-2-and-modi-2-family
http://www.head-fi.org/t/748067/official-schiit-magni-modi-2-uber-thread
Most likely someone will be expressing thoughts on the two amps.

Modi 2 vs. Bifrost? One's a bit more refined DAC. Would you find the difference significant and worthwhile? That's a personal evaluation.

 

[Mr Rick]

I used to have the Asgard 2. Nice amp, just ran a bit too hot for me since it is Class A. Since then, the Modi 2 Uber has come out. Haven't heard it, but seems like it might perform as well as the Asgard 2 in terms of driving headphones. That's the most important thing to consider is if the amp you buy will power the headphones you might buy. Might want to look around in these two threads:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/746128/the-schiitstorm-next-gen-magni-2-and-modi-2-family
http://www.head-fi.org/t/748067/official-schiit-magni-modi-2-uber-thread
Most likely someone will be expressing thoughts on the two amps.

Modi 2 vs. Bifrost? One's a bit more refined DAC. Would you find the difference significant and worthwhile? That's a personal evaluation.

I think you mean the Magni. The Modi 2 U will not drive headphones.

 

[cel4145]

I think you mean the Magni. The Modi 2 U will not drive headphones.

Thanks. I fixed it

 

[crixnet]

Thanks for the input. From what I've read, the great thing about the Bitfrost is that it's modular, so it's upgradable. Whether or not it's worth the initial cost difference is something I don't know.
 
The Magni2 is touted as being very capable, and it also runs hot, like the Asgard2. I'm still on the fence whether it offers a substantial performance boost versus the Magni2.
 
For what it's worth, I emailed Schiit about this, and they wrote back to say,
 

"Bifrost/A2 would definitely be the better performer (and it would provide an upgradable platform on the digital side for the future), but it’s really hard to beat the value of the M2U stack…you really can’t go wrong with either."

 
I had already had gathered as much, so I didn't get a definitive answer. It'd be really great to hear if someone's done any A/B testing of these two setups.
 
I'll check out the threads you cited, but if anyone has some info about this, please let me know.
 
Thanks again,
 
Mike

 

[Solrighal]

Can I ask why you're so set on Schiit? There are other manufacturers out there.

 

[superjawes]

The Magni2 is touted as being very capable, and it also runs hot, like the Asgard2. I'm still on the fence whether it offers a substantial performance boost versus the Magni2.

I don't think this is true. Granted, I am using the Magni 2 Uber, but it barely gets warm. My Valhalla, on the other hand...that gets quite hot.

Can I ask why you're so set on Schiit? There are other manufacturers out there.

I love my Schiit, and I do think they are a good choice, but this is also a good question.

Now if money is no object and you are set on Schiit, I think you should at least be considering a Lyr (Ragnarok would probably be the ultimate, but that's a BIG step up =P). The downside (IMO) of Magni and Asgard is that their power potental rolls off when heading into high impedance phones (and I love my HD600). Lyr has more power than you should ever need at 32 and 50 Ohms, but it will still have the chops to power your 300 or 600 Ohm headphones. That should give you a very wider choice of headphones if you want to dabble.

As for Modi vs. Bifrost, Modi will get the job done, but Bifrost will probably be a little better, and the option to upgrade is pretty sweet. You'll be able to keep up with Schiit's DAC improvements without having to buy a completely new DAC. But again, Modi can still get the job done.

 

[Solrighal]

I've been road-testing a Project Ember and it's an exceptional amp at an exceptional price. I'm not knocking Schiit though, they get good reviews too.

 

[cel4145]

I don't think this is true. Granted, I am using the Magni 2 Uber, but it barely gets warm. My Valhalla, on the other hand...that gets quite hot.

Agreed. The Asgard 2 is 30W, and as a Class A amp, will be running near full power all the time (regardless of volume setting). The Magni is only 5W.

 

[crixnet]

 I don't think this is true. Granted, I am using the Magni 2 Uber, but it barely gets warm. My Valhalla, on the other hand...that gets quite hot.

 Agreed. The Asgard 2 is 30W, and as a Class A amp, will be running near full power all the time (regardless of volume setting). The Magni is only 5W.

 
Thanks for the info. I gratefully stand corrected.
 
Quote:

 Can I ask why you're so set on Schiit? There are other manufacturers out there.

 
The short(est) reasons why I'm aiming at Schiit are:
 
- Overwhelmingly great reviews from owner's and reviewers
- I very respect the pedigrees of the company's founders
- Excellent product sound and build quality
- Price point/bang for the buck (money, unfortunately, IS an object)
 
Also, particular to the Magni2 and Asgard2 (versus the Project Ember, Lyr, etc.), I'm primarily looking at solid-state amps as a first desktop amp.
 
Particular to the Modi Uber/Bitfrost, I want the option of driving active speakers.
 
Regarding tubes, the fact is, I know nothing about tubes or tube amps, except what I read. At this stage, I'll confess to being a little leery about the prospect of managing such delicate, potentially expensive consumable components such as tubes. 
 
As for power to drive higher-impedance cans, it's somewhat of a moot point at the moment. I'm extremely happy with my great all-arounder Philips X2 Fidelio phones. Future cans on my short list are the TH900, the HE-560 and the soon-to-debut Audeze EL-8. All of these are very efficient, low-impedance cans. I do appreciate power, though, so having more than I currently need is not a bad thing, by any means.
 
I guess the bottom line for me right now is: I have to start somewhere and Schiit seems to offer consistently great, elegantly made products by some badass guys. And I like their company philosophy and approach.
 
However, I'm happy to hear about alternatives! So thanks for the info, and let me know what setup you think is worth considering. 

 

[Mr Rick]

   
The short(est) reasons why I'm aiming at Schiit are:
 
- Overwhelmingly great reviews from owner's and reviewers
- I very respect the pedigrees of the company's founders
- Excellent product sound and build quality
- Price point/bang for the buck (money, unfortunately, IS an object)
 
Also, particular to the Magni2 and Asgard2 (versus the Project Ember, Lyr, etc.), I'm primarily looking at solid-state amps as a first desktop amp.
 
Particular to the Modi Uber/Bitfrost, I want the option of driving active speakers.
 
Regarding tubes, the fact is, I know nothing about tubes or tube amps, except what I read. At this stage, I'll confess to being a little leery about the prospect of managing such delicate, potentially expensive consumable components such as tubes. 
 
As for power to drive higher-impedance cans, it's somewhat of a moot point at the moment. I'm extremely happy with my great all-arounder Philips X2 Fidelio phones. Future cans on my short list are the TH900, the HE-560 and the soon-to-debut Audeze EL-8. All of these are very efficient, low-impedance cans. I do appreciate power, though, so having more than I currently need is not a bad thing, by any means.
 
I guess the bottom line for me right now is: I have to start somewhere and Schiit seems to offer consistently great, elegantly made products by some badass guys. And I like their company philosophy and approach.
 
However, I'm happy to hear about alternatives! So thanks for the info, and let me know what setup you think is worth considering. 

You might really enjoy the Schiit Vali. I'm using it with my X2s right now. The tubes are not rollable but will last 10,000 to 20,000 hours. And replacements are $20.00 from Schiit , even cheaper in the aftermarket. I have more powerful amps but the little Vali will hold it's own with most of them. And, it's only $120.00 !!

 

[Solrighal]

Those are pretty solid reasons I guess. I only wanted to highlight that there are other options. I hear what you're saying regarding valves and I share some of your concerns. You might want to have a look at the Project Polaris though, it's solid-state & has a touch valve harmonics thrown in. I can't vouch for it personally though as my review sample has not arrived here yet. All Garage1217 amps have more than enough power for any headphones out there and the Ember & Polaris will happily drive your active speakers too.
 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/725896/new-from-garage1217-the-solid-state-project-polaris
 
http://www.garage1217.com/
 
Good luck whatever you decide to do.

 

[cel4145]

Well, another way to look at this is since you are just getting into this, start with the Modi/Magni realizing you might want to upgrade later on *after* you get a better idea of what you might be looking for in a DAC/amp. If they have them in your area, go to a Head-Fi meetup and listen to some other equipment.

 

[superjawes]

On Just Starting out: Magni+Modi is probably the way to go. As Cel said, if you aren't sure what you want, these are the cheapest, and they are quite capable. You might find that you don't ever need anything else. If you get the Uber stack, Magni will be even more capable, and Modi will be able to accept almost any input (you'll have to choose USB or optical otherwise).

On Tubes: they aren't that fragile. Yes, they will burn out eventually, but you can get replacements, and they don't even have to be the stock model (tube rolling!).

On Lyr, Specifically: I only brought it up because it sounded like you were shooting for a higher price point. Lyr has gobs of power across the entire listed impedance range, giving it a lot more flexibility (Valhalla isn't too great at powering low impedance low efficiency cans, and Asgard would likely have trouble kicking up the volume on high impedance cans). It was a suggestion to keep your headphone selection as wide as possible.

 

[Shaffer]

FWIW, I own a Modi. It's a rather poor-sounding piece: opaque, lifeless, veiled, somewhat muddy presentation, little detail (relatively speaking), terrible bass extension and articulation, highly curtailed sense of air and space. I auditioned a HRT MSII at the same time and it was better in every way imaginable. Good luck.