[andrzejpw]

I'm eagerly awaiting your findings Kurt. I find sweeping generalizations that because of the fact that the gilmore has a higher voltage PSU it will sound better a bit hard to swallow . . .

 

[Sovkiller]

Quote:

Originally posted by radrd Well, so far I've learned jack ****. So, would it be worth trying to upgrade my op amp and buffers to make my META42 better, or get a Gilmore. The upgrade to the META42 (if Eric would even do it), would cost me money, while buying the Gilmore probably wouldn't cost me much at all. That's why I'm more interested in buying the Gilmore than upgrading the META42, but maybe it would be worth upgrading the META42? I'm confused. It looks like no one really knows the potential of the META42. That seems to be the bottom line. But even if I upgrade mine, I still won't be able to compare it to a Gilmore any time soon. I think I will enjoy what I have for a while.

IMO, get the new gilmore, to get the sound of a Gilmore from a META if at the end you find a way to do it...will cost you more than the gilmore itself....and at the edn will be an upgraded META and nothing else...the new look will also help a lot, let's see what antness will do with it, if you want to know more about the new gilmore, just PM me OK...

 

[Possum]

IMO, excellent points by KurtW regarding proper identification of these amps.

For example, there's often a bunch of posts in threads regarding comparisons with the META42 where members ask for exact configurations because a reviewer loosely called an amp a META42 or Maxed Out META42. The META42 is like a big DIY breadboard, where you can put down parts to make anything from a Cmoy to the more common, more "maxed out" Walt-Jung configuration.

And as KurtW said, the Gilmore will have to be identified in this way, though there'll probably be less confusion since the PCBs made for the Gilmore don't exactly let you make hundreds of different amps.

 

[Sovkiller]

And the most common gilmore is the antness gilmore, and I think having less options to play with, makes it a better known amp for everybody, most of them are alike, he does not includes too many mods on the orders...or at least I do not heard of any...

 

[Whit]

Quote:

One question in my mind is, is it the power supply or the amp circuitry (or both) that makes one sound better than the other? I have not seen an answer to this question, so I intend to find out myself.

The power supply is possibly the most critical component in an amp. The amount of regulation is very important but not so much as the amount of noise generated by the components of the power supply. Most home Meta42s use the Elpac WM080 which is a fine power supply except when compared to the gilmore, jung super regulator, or borbley regulator. Of these three I would say that the Gilmore is the noisiest. Currently the absolute best regulator is the POOGE, which is an updated design of the Jung super regulator. If we look at all of the super amps, we begin to see a recurring trend. The Prehead, gilmore, and Headroom Max all have stellar power supplies. These are typically described as the "best" amps. Typically, the quietness of an amp is described as blackness.

Whit

 

[williamgoody]

Whit, excellent point. I have to say Antness' Gilmore really does reming me of a Max, both very very quiet.

 

[kelly]

Quote:

Originally posted by Sovkiller And the most common gilmore is the antness gilmore, and I think having less options to play with, makes it a better known amp for everybody, most of them are alike, he does not includes too many mods on the orders...or at least I do not heard of any...

I don't know that this is completely true. I believe Antness will install Black Gates, Nichicons or a stepped attenuator so long as you're willing to pay for the price increase and wait for the parts to come in. But it'd be a true statement to say that the existing HeadAmp.com Gilmore amps are pretty much all the same.

 

[Audio-Me]

I originally planned on working the META42 design to its full potential by using a very good power supply, and choosing finest of parts under the belief that this approach would improve the sound to a higher level. I have not heard the gilmore amp, however based on information and opinions from people I take into consideration, I'm willing to go along with the suggestion that it is the better amp design. I felt at the time that perhaps this high performance configuration of a META42 may reach or go beyond the level of the gilmore amp. Further thinking lead me to go with logic instead of my stubborness. So with that idea, I told myself, audio is SO worth all this money. Instead of getting a hot rodded META42, I've decided to put that effort into the accepted better design, gilmore.

Is the gilmore a significant upgrade from a well configured meta42? Probably not, however, there probably is a level gap, and these sublties often make all the difference...

Whit, have you done a comparisons between those four power supplies you mention? I'd be very interested in your findings and opinions on the strengths of each one. What makes the POOGE the best? Do they all use different regulator chips? Are they completely different designs? What do you think is the best transformer for an audio power supply?

 

[Sovkiller]

Quote:

Originally posted by kelly I don't know that this is completely true. I believe Antness will install Black Gates, Nichicons or a stepped attenuator so long as you're willing to pay for the price increase and wait for the parts to come in. But it'd be a true statement to say that the existing HeadAmp.com Gilmore amps are pretty much all the same.

Is a DIY project, kelly, of course maybe you can make him do, if you pay, whatever you want, but is not usual is what I mean, all the owners of the gilmore seems to be very satisfied without going overboard, with fancy stuff, I think I will go for one (the new version) pretty soon and I would like an stepped attenuator on it, but if this will cost me 100 more I think I will keep the blue alps or whatever he will install on it and maybe later on I will change myself the pot, if I could find one for cheap....

 

[radrd]

I wonder what difference Black Gates would make and how much more they would add to the price (or if he would even do it). It seems like whenever people mod SACD players they always use Black Gates, so I would assume it improves the sound.

 

[Whit]

Quote:

Whit, have you done a comparisons between those four power supplies you mention? I'd be very interested in your findings and opinions on the strengths of each one. What makes the POOGE the best? Do they all use different regulator chips? Are they completely different designs? What do you think is the best transformer for an audio power supply?

I have not done a comparison between these power supplies. The Jung super regulator, POOGE, and Borbley are not power supplies per se. They are just regulators so you still need a source of DC to be regulated and a capacitor reservoir to reduce ripple. The main differences between the Jung and POOGe is that the Jung is an Opamp based discrete regulator while the POOGE is a bipolar transistor discrete regulator which should provide lower noise. I think the best transformer for audio use is a toroid but as with everything opinions will vary from person to person.
In the "forbidden thread" I tried to get the ball rolling on a power supply pcb designed around either the POOGE or one of the newer Jung Super regulator variants but no one was willing to bite.

Whit

 

[Audio-Me]

And what type is the regulation in the gilmore ps? Can a better regulator be subsituted? I wonder how well the IR dual mosfet transistors work in this area. Isn't it sort of a "known" thing in the audio world that toroidal is the best type? I was asking for a specific one per se.

 

[NetRunner]

*Well.. there are those that like EI-frames better than toroids. Less DC-offset, but more magnetic field. I think (in my limited lack of wisdom) toroids are probably lot easier of the two..*