[obobskivich]

I'd agree with the K701 not being as airy as the F1 or SA5000, haven't heard the AD2000 so can't comment there. I think the F1 is probably the best of the three for staging and "lightness" and the SA5000 is somewhere inbetween (with the K701 having both the most bass and least "airy" stage (it feels like you're inside a big hall, instead of out in a field)). 
 
On the 'stats front - the ESP/10s with Denon pads still remain the best soundstaging I've ever heard in a headphone ever. So I'll agree there too. There was a discussion about this in the ESP/950 thread (about angling 'stats) a while ago. 
Quote:

From my personal experience, LCD2 rev 2 have a terrible soundstage where you really feels blocked and stuffy inside. HE-500 on the other hand have far less of that problem, Stax don't have this problem just not as forward as my AD1000PRM/AD2000. SR-009 have the best presentation of any headphones I have heard, including soundstage. For airyness, it is hard to beat AD2k, F1 and SA5000 (note: how K701 is not on there) but generalizing stats and orthodynamics as being worse is not a good idea.
Onwards to the Fostex, I have listened to two pairs, which both are modded. One lightly modded with dampening added, other is the full Thunderpant treatment. They are both nice to listen to, while the dampened one is more engaging, the Thunderpants is smoother and good for easy listening. I would take the dampened version any day myself.
And please, add AD900 to the listen. Yes, they aren't as good as the AD2k for me, but they are the least quirky one on the line. Rather balanced and very interesting to listen to, while not as exciting as the AD2ks they still have an outstanding vocal line.

 

 

[kn19h7]

Quote:

From my personal experience, LCD2 rev 2 have a terrible soundstage where you really feels blocked and stuffy inside. HE-500 on the other hand have far less of that problem, Stax don't have this problem just not as forward as my AD1000PRM/AD2000. SR-009 have the best presentation of any headphones I have heard, including soundstage. For airyness, it is hard to beat AD2k, F1 and SA5000 (note: how K701 is not on there) but generalizing stats and orthodynamics as being worse is not a good idea.
Onwards to the Fostex, I have listened to two pairs, which both are modded. One lightly modded with dampening added, other is the full Thunderpant treatment. They are both nice to listen to, while the dampened one is more engaging, the Thunderpants is smoother and good for easy listening. I would take the dampened version any day myself.
And please, add AD900 to the listen. Yes, they aren't as good as the AD2k for me, but they are the least quirky one on the line. Rather balanced and very interesting to listen to, while not as exciting as the AD2ks they still have an outstanding vocal line.

 
Completely agree with this.. Thats perhaps the main reason I regard HE500 as a much superior than LCD2.
 
As for T50RP, I've only heard it stock and the only thing I've noticed was the heavily rolled off lows and highs.

 

[kalbee]

Nice to know, Ra97oR! Definitely need to try one of those HE-xx(x) out one day...
And while you are right in saying that generalizing stats (well I didn't mention this one since I've never heard one before) and orthodynamics as having smaller soundstage than general dynamics, I didn't say them without reasons:
-The previous mention of angled drivers helping--it is not a feature as commonly found in orthos (which are also rarer altogether)
-LCD2, HE500 and the likes are out of the price range discussed in this thread (AFAIK) and thus weren't really considered in my post. Doesn't help that I didn't specify this...
 
I could be wrong on the pricing though :x

 

[214324]

Quote:

I wouldn't say the Denons have recessed mids so much as boosted bass - the mids are not their absolute strong suit. They're still capable 'phones. 

I probably should have put it in a different way.

 
Quote:

On the K70x & Q701 drivers: having the same driver will not equal having the same sound. If they changed anything in the enclosure, the sound can be changed. (No you did not say otherwise, I know)
 
Otherwise the same can be said about the T50RP and its cheaper siblings, the T20RP and T40RP. If anything, the T40RP seems to at least have the same driver (supposedly; the driver parts have the exact same markings on them) but most will agree they do not sound entirely the same even put under similar enclosure settings. I don't know if anyone actually transplanted a T40RP driver into a T50RP shell though.
 
Though the trend is to say that if you are to get either a T40RP or a T20RP, get the latter instead.
But if you want a easier modding guide, the T50RP are the better of the 3, just because most people make guides with these and results can at least correspond to what's been posted by the modder.

 
Just confirming.
 
That would be interesting, although there's always that bias with listening we can't really get rid of.
 
Will do if I plan to get Fostex.

 
Quote:

Wow didn't know the RS-1 uses the same drivers as SR-80! But yeah, almost all mods on Head-Fi are about modding everything about the headphones minus the drivers themselves. Definitely hard to argue that same drivers in different enclosures must sound exactly the same. If we all go back to the basics, that is the fact that headphones are nothing more than speakers, it may make sense to more people that the space and location of the said speakers play a crucial part in delivering good sound. Not to say that the drivers don't matter.
 
Isn't another difference between K701 and K702 the fact that the 702 has a detachable cable? or perhaps that is already a thing of the past...
As for color, Val said that the white LP (or LP2) has a tiny bit less bass than the other colors. I'm not sure how much of a difference it is, but its quite sound; the material and paint involved also contribute to the mass damping, so a color with lighter/less pigments is potentially not as heavy.
 
But man, so many hardcore Grado mods need to try some for big ones for my headphones this summer!

I guess drivers are more difficult to mod because you might break them on accident and you can usually change the sound by just changing the enclosure. I think probably one of the most common driver mods though is tilting it. I think I read somewhere it could give you a better soundstage. I don't remember, maybe it was in a dream. 

 
Quote:

Yeah the 701/702 cable thing won't affect the sound. Was just reconfirming that I didn't get things all wrong inn my memories
 
I don't deny--the difference color will make to the sound should be minimal. We're not talking about the whole enclosure made of hard worked pure layers of paint (would certainly be interesting to look at!) so the difference in mass, if any, is minimal. Oh man imagine it runs under moisture... yikes :x
Well, unless the actual enclosure is thin and light enough that a four layer primer paint paint sealant will make a difference. Even then, depends how much pigment was used, and which kind.

 
It shouldn't unless you have a horrible cable.

 
Quote:

I'm the type that tends to spend on things with better price/value. This one was supposed to be one as well, but ended up making me want to explore more orthodynamic/isodynamic headphones... it was a interesting start though. I didn't follow any particular mod so my results vary a lot; currently the FR distribution is quite nice but slightly veiled. I can live with it, though I plan on messing with it some more when I get more time. These definitely have potential.
 
Well, as far as materials go you can go for cheaper alternatives (not always the best? haven't tried that much) but the general stuff people tend to use are found for pretty cheap in craft stores and pharmacies. Thing is, for most people the mods haven't ended and they're still trying new stuff. It's very constructive though, literally. Most expensive materials to buy are long the lines of... new cables (V-MODA audio-only cable is about $10?) and earpads.
 
You can also consider hunting for some vintage orthos on Ebay. Prices vary... While not the best of the best, if you can get your hands on a Yamaha HP-1 or YH-1 (only vintage ortho I had experience with) those are easy to reach a good sound point. They're not without problems though... like possible worn out and dried earpads, struts that break without way to repair if dropped, and hm... the fact that they are on-ear? Supposedly they can be had for <$100.
 
Most dynamic driver headphones probably come with larger soundstage though, depending if that is an important factor to you. Well, depends on the price range of the dynamics I guess.
 
 
Well, its just an idea.

 
I'm like this too. It's an Asian thing.
 
A little uncomfortable about the vintage orthos idea but I'll keep it in mind just in case.

 
Quote:

From my personal experience, LCD2 rev 2 have a terrible soundstage where you really feels blocked and stuffy inside. HE-500 on the other hand have far less of that problem, Stax don't have this problem just not as forward as my AD1000PRM/AD2000. SR-009 have the best presentation of any headphones I have heard, including soundstage. For airyness, it is hard to beat AD2k, F1 and SA5000 (note: how K701 is not on there) but generalizing stats and orthodynamics as being worse is not a good idea.
Onwards to the Fostex, I have listened to two pairs, which both are modded. One lightly modded with dampening added, other is the full Thunderpant treatment. They are both nice to listen to, while the dampened one is more engaging, the Thunderpants is smoother and good for easy listening. I would take the dampened version any day myself.
And please, add AD900 to the listen. Yes, they aren't as good as the AD2k for me, but they are the least quirky one on the line. Rather balanced and very interesting to listen to, while not as exciting as the AD2ks they still have an outstanding vocal line.

 
I did find the ATH-AD2000's for $649.99 on ebay. Not sure if I should do it, considering it's almost double my budget. It's performance is strong but its price is rather uncomfortable. I couldn't find the ATH-AD1000prm anywhere. I think somebody told me it was no longer made.
 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Audio-Technica-ATH-AD2000-Open-air-Dynamic-Headphone-/280861110049?pt=Other_MP3_Player_Accessories&hash=item4164a06f21#ht_1504wt_1139
 
Will add. Do you think the same can be said about the A900x?

 
Quote:

I'd agree with the K701 not being as airy as the F1 or SA5000, haven't heard the AD2000 so can't comment there. I think the F1 is probably the best of the three for staging and "lightness" and the SA5000 is somewhere inbetween (with the K701 having both the most bass and least "airy" stage (it feels like you're inside a big hall, instead of out in a field)). 
 
On the 'stats front - the ESP/10s with Denon pads still remain the best soundstaging I've ever heard in a headphone ever. So I'll agree there too. There was a discussion about this in the ESP/950 thread (about angling 'stats) a while ago. 


 

Unfortunately most of those headphones are above my budget, so I guess the K701 would be the closest to the rest?
 
I wish I could afford electrostatics. 

 

[RexAeterna]

Planar just means they use a full surface as a radiator - orthodynamics, electrostats, AMTs, ribbons, and so on are all planars. Compare this to cone style speakers that do not have a uniform surface as a radiator. 

Stats, as planars, meet your dipole definition. They are not defiant. They're dipole planars, they're just electrostatic, not orthodynamic. Their polar response will be very similar (in concept) to any other dipole planar - doesn't matter what principle it uses to excite the air though. 

alrighty then! got ya.

 

[obobskivich]

Hybrid,
 
Remember that the Sonys mentioned are now out of production (it's been very recent, which is a shame); before they went away, both of them were roughly within your budget (~$300 street). If you're really this undecided, wouldn't hurt to wait for the MA900 to come out and get some (English language and coherent) reviews. 
 
 

 

[214324]

Quote:

Hybrid,
 
Remember that the Sonys mentioned are now out of production (it's been very recent, which is a shame); before they went away, both of them were roughly within your budget (~$300 street). If you're really this undecided, wouldn't hurt to wait for the MA900 to come out and get some (English language and coherent) reviews. 
 
 

I'm probably not going to buy anything until the summer. Might as well buy my audio gear and computer parts together.

 

[RayleighSilvers]

Quote:

From my personal experience, LCD2 rev 2 have a terrible soundstage where you really feels blocked and stuffy inside. HE-500 on the other hand have far less of that problem, Stax don't have this problem just not as forward as my AD1000PRM/AD2000. SR-009 have the best presentation of any headphones I have heard, including soundstage. For airyness, it is hard to beat AD2k, F1 and SA5000 (note: how K701 is not on there) but generalizing stats and orthodynamics as being worse is not a good idea.
Onwards to the Fostex, I have listened to two pairs, which both are modded. One lightly modded with dampening added, other is the full Thunderpant treatment. They are both nice to listen to, while the dampened one is more engaging, the Thunderpants is smoother and good for easy listening. I would take the dampened version any day myself.
And please, add AD900 to the listen. Yes, they aren't as good as the AD2k for me, but they are the least quirky one on the line. Rather balanced and very interesting to listen to, while not as exciting as the AD2ks they still have an outstanding vocal line.

You've listened to all three? (Audio technicas)
 
Which one do you think has the best price/performance ratio? 
 
http://www.headfonia.com/audio-technica-ad-series-ad300-ad700-ad900-ad1000prm-ad2000/
 
This is an interesting article. It seems to suggest the 1000RPM is better than the AD2000 apart from Micro detail. How far is the 1000 compared to the RPM and would you say there is a big and much better difference between the AD2000 and the 1000/900 to warrant the price tag? Also how bad is the? Is it as weak as people make it out to be? I can't see how such a weak bass (based on descriptions) can be good. Powerful instruments like kick drums wont sound right without the thump and feeling of air moving. Sorry to pick your brain, you seem to be the only one whose tried all 3, and previously I only felt comfortable with paying for AD900 money but I've been agonizing whether to spend over twice as much and just get the AD2000. It can't be twice as good, thats for sure.