G&W T-2.6F Tube Amplifier
Apr 22, 2005 at 10:44 AM Post #16 of 55
Hi,

I've been using a T2.6F for a few month now, with a Philips HP890 and I'm seriously thinking of upgrading the headphones.

I changed the 6922EH tubes for NOS Amperex ECC88.

IMHO, this amp can give much much more with better headphones.

I also use it as a pre-amp with a solid state power amp and it really sounds great : detailed and smooth at the same time, with a beautiful medium and a wide/deep soundstage.

Any regret ? a lack of strength in the deeper bass. but maybe it's not the GW's fault...
 
Apr 22, 2005 at 10:47 AM Post #17 of 55
quote
I'd actually be interested in a response to this as well. Yay or nay on those regulators and the dynahi?

They are used to power the servo and nothing else. Nowhere near the
audio signal path. You can put in any compatible 3 terminal regulator.
 
Apr 22, 2005 at 2:35 PM Post #18 of 55
Quote:

Originally Posted by kevin gilmore
quote
I'd actually be interested in a response to this as well. Yay or nay on those regulators and the dynahi?

They are used to power the servo and nothing else. Nowhere near the
audio signal path. You can put in any compatible 3 terminal regulator.



Thanks for the response Dr. Gilmore. And the statement that they are poor quality regulators is accurate?
 
Apr 23, 2005 at 7:35 AM Post #19 of 55
Quote:

Originally Posted by williamz
Hi Eric,
Thanks for your comments.
I like t2.6f and can easily get one. But will envy those who have the legend 8P!
I wish Lao Ye would make one for me
blink.gif

william



Hoho, I really hope Mr. Ye can make 1 for you but it will be very difficult: the tubes used in 8P are expensive ones and most of them are discontinued, plus Mr. Ye will usually make 8P for his very good friends. So I wish you good luck!
smily_headphones1.gif


BTW, some people said with better tubes such as ECC88 CCA T2.6F sounds very similar to 8P, so I think it maybe a better way for you to upgrade T2.6F and this will be much easier. Mr. Wu Gang is also a very famous person among Chinese Hifiers and I am confident in his products.
cool.gif
 
Apr 23, 2005 at 3:58 PM Post #20 of 55
Quote:

Originally Posted by Hornet600
Hoho, I really hope Mr. Ye can make 1 for you but it will be very difficult: the tubes used in 8P are expensive ones and most of them are discontinued, plus Mr. Ye will usually make 8P for his very good friends. So I wish you good luck!
smily_headphones1.gif


BTW, some people said with better tubes such as ECC88 CCA T2.6F sounds very similar to 8P, so I think it maybe a better way for you to upgrade T2.6F and this will be much easier. Mr. Wu Gang is also a very famous person among Chinese Hifiers and I am confident in his products.
cool.gif




Hornet600,

you .... how could you let me know that... I now just worry about my pocket.
tongue.gif



william
 
Apr 24, 2005 at 7:32 PM Post #21 of 55
Hi Guys,

I've heard from a couple of guys who think the G&W J1 is the best thing since sliced bread and report it sounds excellent (my one sounds excellent too) However........ I've also heard from quite a few people who say their J1's sound like total crud so this would suggest the parts in the J1 are not closely matched and you'll either get one which falls very close to the design tolerance or one which is well outwith the design tolerance... at £100 a pop they couldn't afford to match the transistors etc. and the parts are most probaby fitted off the shelf without matching.

A friend of mine bought one and more or less confirmed this to be the case... he had a very close look at the circuit and "then" listened to his J1 and found it to sound pretty awful.. the exact opposite from my J1 which sounds great.. here are his findings:

"Got my headamp yesterday. First thing I did was break the seal, take the cover off, and trace out the circuit. Did you notice that although the amp is made in China it was designed in the US? Clock the 'phone number of the designer on the pcb. I've got the full schematic traced out now and it was pretty much as I'd guessed from your photographs. The LF353 opamp in the power supply section is used to cancel ripple and noise on the output of the 7815/7915 voltage regulators. The headamp proper is an input differential pair of jfets ( 2SK30A junction field effect transistors ), a bjt ( 2N4403 bipolar junction transistor ) voltage amplifier, and a simple complementary ( 2SB647/2SD667 ) emitter follower output stage. The output stage operates in class AB with a quiescent current of 4-6mA per device. The output offset is adjustable with the 100k trimpots and was around 2mV on both channels of my amp. The output offset and quiescent current are interdependent, so that the setting which gives minimum offset is unlikely to be optimal for lowest crossover distortion. With class AB bjt output stages the quiescent current setting is critical for decent performance."

"After I'd done all of that I played my reference CD. Are we talking about the same headamp here?? Raw and in yer face; exciting for the first 10 mins and very wearing thereafter. I tried all of my headphones and it sounded awful with every pair of them. The mid range was raw, grainy, and muddled - the classic "transistor" sound of crossover distortion from a badly set up class B output stage. I found it impossible to separate out individual instruments and the stereo imaging was very poor. The extreme bass and treble were very prominent but not at all accurate. The bass was very rasping, "buzzy", and "one note". The treble was best done but came across as hissy on voices and wire brushes. The amp sounded best with the Grado 'phones; but even with them after 10 mins I'd had enough. I don't think I could listen to the amp for more than 30mins at a stretch with any of the headphones I've got."

"If all of the components were carefully matched and selected to give mimimum output offset at the same time as lowest crossover distortion then I believe that the amp could sound good. Obviously component selection and matching are out of the question for such a low cost amp. The amp has no temperature compensation so that as the output devices warm up the quiescent current will increase away from the optimum value for minimum distortion ( in the unlikely event it was at this value to begin with ). This will happen gradually over the space of 30 to 60 minutes so you won't be too aware of it. The sound of the amp will vary quite markedly from sample to sample - you were obviously very lucky and got one of the ( very ) few close to optimum performance."


Armed with this info I can no longer recommend the J1...... If they all sounded the same as the one I have then I'd recommend them without doubt but considering the sound varies (so widely) from amp to amp due to unmatched components it wouldn't be fair for me to recommend them to you guys... you could pick one up that has components that are pretty well matched (by luck) or you could pick up one with components that are way out of tolerance...... That's pot luck and I don't want you guys gambling your money on an amp which "may" or "may not" sound good when it arrives on your doorstep.

Those of you who have got J1's that sound like crap "could" replace certain components and hand match them but this is a costly and time consuming business and is probably "why" the J1 only costs £100.... if they were to hand match all the components when they were being made then it would cost a hell of a lot more... you'd throw more transistors in the bin than you would fit into the amp.

Those of you who are lucky enough (and it is pot luck) to have J1's with pretty closely matched components will be enjoying the music and probably oblivious to this thread..... I just wish the consistency of the J1 was close to 100% so that everyone could hear this amp at its best but it obviously is more of a 50 / 50 thing and, as such, I can no longer give it the thumbs up
frown.gif


I apologise to any of you guys who read my report of the J1 and went out and bought one which turned out to be a bit of a kipper.... I should have realised that at £100 the components wouldn't have been hand matched and the parts would be fitted direct off the shelf with the only test being "DC offset" which is adjusted by the 100K trimpots. I wrongly assumed they would all be consistent, my apologies.


Mike.
 
Apr 25, 2005 at 1:06 AM Post #22 of 55
Pinkfloyd : any chance someone could compare the two units directly ? On their auctions pics, one can see the parts used are not strictly the same from an unit to the other (see 1 and 3 at the bottom) : http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...sPageName=WDVW . Furthermore, are the two film caps near the output on the signal ?


oneeyedhobbit : LM7815/LM7915 are a kind of standard in most commercial mid-fi units under 500$ and are still often met in higher end products. Not the best thing ever, not the worst. Cheap and basic part.
 
Apr 25, 2005 at 3:17 AM Post #23 of 55
Quote:

Originally Posted by PinkFloyd
Hi Guys,

I've heard from a couple of guys who think the G&W J1 is the best thing since sliced bread and report it sounds excellent (my one sounds excellent too) However........ I've also heard from quite a few people who say their J1's sound like total crud so this would suggest the parts in the J1 are not closely matched and you'll either get one which falls very close to the design tolerance or one which is well outwith the design tolerance........

Mike.



Damn it! I should have known this was too good to be true. I haven't even been able to plug mine in yet (waiting for voltage converter to arrive) and I'm already bummed. I even made sure to get Sennheiser HD600's over Beyer DT880's so that I was guaranteed to get the same experience as you reported. Well almost, I don't have a Ken Ishiwata signature. Well this certainly sucks. I should've just sprung for the Gilmore Lite. That'll teach me to be frugal in this hobby. I guess the saying remains true, you get what you pay for.

Regardless of the bad news, thanks for the update Mike, I appreciate it.
 
Apr 25, 2005 at 3:33 AM Post #24 of 55
Quote:

Originally Posted by Borat
Damn it! I should have known this was too good to be true. I haven't even been able to plug mine in yet (waiting for voltage converter to arrive) and I'm already bummed. I even made sure to get Sennheiser HD600's over Beyer DT880's so that I was guaranteed to get the same experience as you reported. Well almost, I don't have a Ken Ishiwata signature. Well this certainly sucks. I should've just sprung for the Gilmore Lite. That'll teach me to be frugal in this hobby. I guess the saying remains true, you get what you pay for.

Regardless of the bad news, thanks for the update Mike, I appreciate it.



If you've not even heard the amp yet, you might want to wait before condemning it. Mine sounds quite nice. Thanks for the transistor response, too.
 
Apr 25, 2005 at 4:02 AM Post #25 of 55
LOL, explains why I received an email from a friend (another a/v nut) last week full of F'ing and BS about my head amp recommendation...
biggrin.gif


Check the link above which has a few photo's of the amps internals, you will see that there are infact two version of the amp, one that is made to original spec, and the other that seems to have been fitted with cheaper/inferior parts in place.

Do G&W allow different/inferior parts into their other equipments that deviates from the original designs?
rolleyes.gif
 
Apr 25, 2005 at 8:13 AM Post #26 of 55
"LF353 opamp in the power supply section is used to cancel ripple and noise on the output of the 7815/7915 voltage regulators. "

If that is true, than we are in a better position regarding the quality of the power supply. But in this case I still do not understand why put marketing emphasis on those crappy 78xx 79xx regulators.

"The output stage operates in class B with a quiescent current of 4-6mA per device. "

This sentence is contradictional on its own. Class B operation does not has any quiescent current at all, that is very basic knowledge. This output stage is rather class AB.

"The amp has no temperature compensation so that as the output devices warm up the quiescent current will increase away from the optimum value for minimum distortion ( in the unlikely event it was at this value to begin with ). This will happen gradually over the space of 30 to 60 minutes so you won't be too aware of it. The sound of the amp will vary quite markedly from sample to sample - you were obviously very lucky and got one of the ( very ) few close to optimum performance."

It is a shame, that it does not has any temperature compensation, but eventually it goes into a stable state, otherwise it would blow up. I suggest to leave this device alwasy on. Maybe that was the intention of the designer as well. Anyway, with any solid state circuit (or any circuit containing any solid state part in the signal path) 3 days continuous operation is needed before reaching optimum operation.
 
Apr 25, 2005 at 8:19 AM Post #27 of 55
Quote:

Originally Posted by 00940
Pinkfloyd : any chance someone could compare the two units directly ? On their auctions pics, one can see the parts used are not strictly the same from an unit to the other (see 1 and 3 at the bottom) : http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...sPageName=WDVW . Furthermore, are the two film caps near the output on the signal ?


oneeyedhobbit : LM7815/LM7915 are a kind of standard in most commercial mid-fi units under 500$ and are still often met in higher end products. Not the best thing ever, not the worst. Cheap and basic part.



Name please one inferior off-the-shelf regulator and the justise is yours.
evil_smiley.gif


Ps.: I also saw one in a wadia cd-player, but that does not mean anything. Who knows what task it had? Maybe regulating the voltage for the stand-by LED? I hope...
 
Apr 25, 2005 at 9:57 AM Post #28 of 55
So I decided to open up my J1 and take a look under the bonnet. It appears that G&W doesn't care about consistency because the parts in mine are not the same as PinkFloyd's, nor are they the same as the parts shown by knoxed in either picture. In fact, every J1 that I have seen pictures of has been slightly different from the previous one.

Here are the pictures of my J1 (sorry for the poor quality):

http://img259.imageshack.us/gal.php?g=borat014pe.jpg

Here are two different J1's from knoxed:

http://www.knoxed.com/ebay/gwj2.jpg

http://www.knoxed.com/ebay/DSC00727.jpg

Here are pictures of PinkFloyd's:

http://img251.imageshack.us/gal.php?g=pinkie42vs.jpg

Here are two pics of a J1 owned by head-fier tiberian:

http://img253.echo.cx/img253/7521/tiberian13ls.jpg

http://img245.echo.cx/img245/5981/tiberian22eh.jpg

What's the deal? This is all very confusing and disappointing.
confused.gif
 
Apr 25, 2005 at 10:19 AM Post #29 of 55
Quote:

Originally Posted by PinkFloyd
Did you notice that although the amp is made in China it was designed in the US? Clock the 'phone number of the designer on the pcb.



Am I reading this right? Because that phone number on the PCB is not a US telephone number. It has 11 digits and US numbers have 10.
 
Apr 25, 2005 at 11:36 AM Post #30 of 55
Quote:

Originally Posted by Banfi T.
Name please one inferior off-the-shelf regulator and the justise is yours.
evil_smiley.gif


Ps.: I also saw one in a wadia cd-player, but that does not mean anything. Who knows what task it had? Maybe regulating the voltage for the stand-by LED? I hope...



Oh, it was mostly rhetoretical. They were used massively for example in the PassLabs D1 DAC, to regulate the voltage for the analog stage. It was a <5000$ unit. Chances are that if you have a cdp under 1K, the dac is getting its voltage from a LM7805. The Benchmark DAC1 is using LM78**/79** regulators for its opamps too (see the old thread about that)
 

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