Fulla 2 vs. Magni 3 + cheap DAC
Apr 17, 2018 at 7:21 PM Thread Starter Post #1 of 16
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mr_gerf

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Hi all!

I'm new to the community, dipping my toes into audiophilia and have found such helpful information here - so first off, thanks! I don't want to re-hash questions that have been answered a million times, but I didn't see this specific topic discussed in my search through the forums.

I ordered a pair of HD6xx and I have a budget of ~$100-150 for a DAC/amp. Fulla 2 seems like a great option, but I'm wondering about the difference between Fulla 2 vs. Magni 3 paired with a cheap DAC like the FiiO D3 or Prozor. I guess the question boils down to if the difference in DAC quality outweighs the improvement in amp power from the Fulla to the Magni.

Everyone seems to suggest the Magni+Modi combo - is it a bad idea to pair the Magni with a cheaper third party DAC if I can't drop an extra $100 for the Modi 2?

In case it helps, my listening is all types of music from rock to hip hop to electronic to jazz, but very infrequent classical.

Thanks again!
 
Apr 17, 2018 at 7:37 PM Post #2 of 16
Have heard the 650’s from a Schiit stack and wasn’t half bad but not from a Fulla 2. Haven’t heard them from the Magni 3 which is a bit warmer but that is not saying much for Schiit. I also like the 650’s (same as 6xx’s) from a O2 amp.
 
Apr 17, 2018 at 10:16 PM Post #4 of 16
Apr 18, 2018 at 11:44 PM Post #6 of 16
Magni 3 will be more versatile if you get more gear in the future, it drives almost everything plus you can use it as a preamp. The Fulla is ultimately limited by USB's power delivery.
 
Apr 18, 2018 at 11:53 PM Post #7 of 16
mr_gerf said:
Everyone seems to suggest the Magni+Modi combo - is it a bad idea to pair the Magni with a cheaper third party DAC if I can't drop an extra $100 for the Modi 2?
Click to expand...
Modi 2 is one of the worst DACs I have tested/measured. Just about any other DAC will do better than it.

I have the Schiit Fulla 2 and Magni 3. I have reviewed the Magni 3 but not the Schiit Fulla 2 yet. As has been noted though, the Magni 3 has more power due to external power supply.
 
Apr 19, 2018 at 2:13 AM Post #8 of 16
amirm said:
Modi 2 is one of the worst DACs I have tested/measured. Just about any other DAC will do better than it.

I have the Schiit Fulla 2 and Magni 3. I have reviewed the Magni 3 but not the Schiit Fulla 2 yet. As has been noted though, the Magni 3 has more power due to external power supply.
Click to expand...
Not my general experience. DACs will influence the sound the least compared to every component in the chain, unless something is really messed up and you end up with a lemon. The Modi 2 gets the job done, and mine has gotten a long service life, even though I also have a Bimby, had a Mojo, and my DAPs have line out.
That said, there is nothing wrong with your plan to use a smaller DAP or amp/dac and line out to the Magni 3.
 
Apr 19, 2018 at 11:41 AM Post #9 of 16
squee116 said:
Not my general experience. DACs will influence the sound the least compared to every component in the chain, unless something is really messed up and you end up with a lemon.
Click to expand...
Well, in the case of Modi 2 it is much more sensitive to the activities of the computer than other DACs. I show this in my review of Schiit Modi 2 such as this:

index.php


Now, whether you get this will depend on the quality of the USB power from your computer and to some extend the USB bus itself. Indeed even the length of the USB cable can make a measurable difference in the output of the Schiit Modi 2:

index.php


Given this variability it is hard to know if your subjective experience translates to OP's. Indeed my son had a Schiit BiFrost that clearly telegraphed the activities of his computer to the analog output of the DAC.

Really, there is no reason in this day and age to put up with such deficient performance over USB. There are plenty of DACs down to even $30 that don't have these issues. And hence my point to OP.

Your larger point is correct to the extent you get a well engineered DAC.
 
Apr 19, 2018 at 12:02 PM Post #10 of 16
amirm said:
Well, in the case of Modi 2 it is much more sensitive to the activities of the computer than other DACs. I show this in my review of Schiit Modi 2 such as this:

index.php


Now, whether you get this will depend on the quality of the USB power from your computer and to some extend the USB bus itself. Indeed even the length of the USB cable can make a measurable difference in the output of the Schiit Modi 2:

index.php


Given this variability it is hard to know if your subjective experience translates to OP's. Indeed my son had a Schiit BiFrost that clearly telegraphed the activities of his computer to the analog output of the DAC.

Really, there is no reason in this day and age to put up with such deficient performance over USB. There are plenty of DACs down to even $30 that don't have these issues. And hence my point to OP.

Your larger point is correct to the extent you get a well engineered DAC.
Click to expand...
Wouldn't this be exclusively related to power? If a USB cable changes the response, it sounds like you're dealing with crappy cables. (By crappy, I mean there's actually something physically wrong with them, not that the cables themselves impart some sound quality to the signal)The only other things being transported to the DAC are 1's and 0's, I thought. So computer activity affecting your readings sort of makes sense, since the Modi 2 is powered by USB. There are ways to fix this, but you are right that cheaper DACs don't have this issue (as long as they also aren't usb powered, otherwise they may).

Perhaps, rather than the graphs you showed, you should show competitive dacs under similar PC load or cable conditions. Just looking at this graph wouldn't inform a person as to the "inferior" nature of Modi 2.
 
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Apr 19, 2018 at 12:23 PM Post #11 of 16
squee116 said:
Wouldn't this be exclusively related to power? If a USB cable changes the response, it sounds like you're dealing with crappy cables. (By crappy, I mean there's actually something physically wrong with them, not that the cables themselves impart some sound quality to the signal)The only other things being transported to the DAC are 1's and 0's, I thought. So computer activity affecting your readings sort of makes sense, since the Modi 2 is powered by USB. There are ways to fix this, but you are right that cheaper DACs don't have this issue (as long as they also aren't usb powered, otherwise they may).

Perhaps, rather than the graphs you showed, you should show competitive dacs under similar PC load or cable conditions. Just looking at this graph wouldn't inform a person as to the "inferior" nature of Modi 2.
Click to expand...
If you clicked on the review you would see how other DACs do under identical situation. :) Here is the example from my USB cable test:

index.php


The Behringer is $79 shipped so even cheaper than Modi 2.

So no, there is nothing broken in the USB cables I tested.

And it is not just 1's and 0's. The digital data needs to be received over USB and power extracted from it. Lack of good filtering of the power can cause bleeding of computer activities. And decoding of the USB data without good isolation can cause its activities to bleed into the sensitive analog portions of the DAC. This is why I measure the DACs. To find such issues. Without measurements, you are shopping blind.
 
Apr 19, 2018 at 1:16 PM Post #12 of 16
To throw in my two cents, I can hear some audible hissing with sensitive IEMs out of a $10 phone dongle with a -97 dB noise floor. I would absolutely not recommend purchasing a DAC that costs ten times as much and injects a comparable amount of noise into an audio signal before it even reaches your amp.
 
Apr 19, 2018 at 5:25 PM Post #14 of 16
Thanks for all the input! For now I think I'm going to go with the Fulla 2, use it as both DAC/Amp to keep cost down for now and still be able to upgrade to a higher powered Magni or other amp with external power supply later.

amirm said:
Modi 2 is one of the worst DACs I have tested/measured. Just about any other DAC will do better than it.
Click to expand...

Thanks for all your comprehensive info amirm. As a novice with all this stuff, I had a basic question about your testing/analysis vs. common perception as I try to learn more about audio. The Magni+Modi Schiit stack is one of the most commonly recommended "entry level" setups based on what I've seen. What do you believe is the disconnect between what your testing shows about the Modi 2 and the community's frequent advice that the Modi 2 is a quality DAC to pair with a powered amp like the Magni?
 
Apr 19, 2018 at 6:35 PM Post #15 of 16
mr_gerf said:
Thanks for all the input! For now I think I'm going to go with the Fulla 2, use it as both DAC/Amp to keep cost down for now and still be able to upgrade to a higher powered Magni or other amp with external power supply later.



Thanks for all your comprehensive info amirm. As a novice with all this stuff, I had a basic question about your testing/analysis vs. common perception as I try to learn more about audio. The Magni+Modi Schiit stack is one of the most commonly recommended "entry level" setups based on what I've seen. What do you believe is the disconnect between what your testing shows about the Modi 2 and the community's frequent advice that the Modi 2 is a quality DAC to pair with a powered amp like the Magni?
Click to expand...

Modi 2 Teardown - https://audiosciencereview.com/foru...dware-teardown-of-schiit-modi-2-usb-dac.2082/

Modi 2 Review - https://audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/budget-dac-review-schiit-modi-2-99.1649/

"I sure hope their higher priced stuff is better because my experience so far indicates anything but that. Please don't buy this DAC."
 
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