[VicAjax]

Quote:

Originally Posted by clarke68 Chris Potter and Robin Eubanks do a really great one on "Prime Directive" on the remarkable Dave Holland album Extended Play: Live at Birdland.

i haven't heard that album... sounds like a must-have.
it's on my list, thanks for the tip!

 

[clarke68]

Quote:

Originally Posted by VicAjax ...simultaneous improvisation...a great example of this is zorn's sax dueling with dave douglas's trumpet on "Ziphim" from Gimel (Masada Vol. 3).

I love Rhapsody. I just went through three different versions of "Ziphim": First Live 1993, Live in Taipei 1995, and Live in Jerusalem (unfortunately Masada 3 isn't yet available). Much to Zorn/Masada's credit, each version is completely different. Far and away the one on Live in Jerusalem has the best collective improv, a remarkable example of the art in fact. The playing on this one is quite free...Zorn and Douglas weave improvisational circles around each other for the first two minutes before the melody is even stated. When they finally do they sort of melt their way into it before taking off again. Good drum solo by Joey Baron on this one too.

The one on Live in Taipei, while it doesn't feature collective improv nearly as much (and the recording quality is quite poor), does feature one of the best recorded solos by Zorn that I've ever heard.

Anyway, that recommendation was so good I'll check out your other one...although the only Kahil el'Zabar album they have on Rhapsody is Spirits Entering by his "Ritual Trio".

 

[clarke68]

Quote:

Originally Posted by VicAjax i haven't heard that album... sounds like a must-have. it's on my list, thanks for the tip!

Actually is...a modern classic. Easily one of the best releases the year it came out (2003).

 

[Jahn]

Coleman, Dolphy, Cherry - man, I loved "Free Jazz" so much, I bought the CD twice! (someone stole my first copy in college) - I even made a mandala of the album cover and stuck it in my yearbook page. Good times.

 

[VicAjax]

Quote:

Originally Posted by clarke68 I love Rhapsody. I just went through three different versions of "Ziphim": First Live 1993, Live in Taipei 1995, and Live in Jerusalem (unfortunately Masada 3 isn't yet available). Much to Zorn/Masada's credit, each version is completely different. Far and away the one on Live in Jerusalem has the best collective improv, a remarkable example of the art in fact. The playing on this one is quite free...Zorn and Douglas weave improvisational circles around each other for the first two minutes before the melody is even stated. When they finally do they sort of melt their way into it before taking off again. Good drum solo by Joey Baron on this one too.

i've only heard Live in Jerusalem a few times, but i really enjoyed it... haven't heard Taipei though. definitely give Gimel a listen, it's my favorite of the original Masada albums.

Quote:

Anyway, that recommendation was so good I'll check out your other one...although the only Kahil el'Zabar album they have on Rhapsody is Spirits Entering by his "Ritual Trio".

i don't know that Ritual Trio album. Big Cliff is a good live album, worth checking out.

i really love Ethnic Heritage Ensemble, especially the album Dance with the Ancestors, but it looks like their back catalog is mostly out of print. i haven't heard the more recent albums, so i don't know how they compare. but imagine free jazz accompanied by thumb piano and african scat, and you get a general idea.

 

[s m @]

Quote:

Originally Posted by VicAjax actually, it's really just since he conceived of Masada that Zorn has composed primarily this way ...previous to Masada, Zorn performed much more free jazz, notably his Spy vs. Spy album and his fantastic concept band Cobra......Zorn encourages simultaneous improvisation.....a distinct element of free jazz.

Although most of the early Zorn I have uses conventional tonal structure, I don't have Spy vs Spy, and the game pieces are something else entirely but nothing if not 'free', so I really can't disagree with you here. TomAto/Tomahto. And although simultaneous improv isn't something I've considered a defining element of free jazz, much of it has this characteristic so again I can't disagree.

I have the Hockey game piece, it's definitely.... interesting for sure. Wouldn't recommend anyone go out tonight and buy the whole set or anything. Well, maybe if you were having the in-laws over for a dinner party and needed something to play I would

.

To wab: If the Sun Ra stuff that turned you off seemed to be (let's take a wild stab here) a bunch of aimless chanting with an occasional incoherent racket or something, not all of his stuff is like that. If you need a more conventional starting point you should maybe try The Sound Of Joy, which is pleasant jazz by almost any standard.

Quote:

the remarkable Dave Holland album Extended Play: Live at Birdland

Finally, I also can vouch for this album. Very very nice, and anyone looking for something that's adventurous without being abrasive or 'out there' sounding should really pick this up. The whole band is right on point, and there are a lot of players, the vibraphone work is particularly cool.

 

[clarke68]

Quote:

Originally Posted by clarke68 Anyway, that recommendation was so good I'll check out your other one...although the only Kahil el'Zabar album they have on Rhapsody is Spirits Entering by his "Ritual Trio".

Turns out Rhapsody has something of a database error...Spirits Entering isn't a trio date at all, but rather a duet with Billy Bang (violin). Overall, duet albums with drummers don't resonate particularly well with me (although William Parker & Hamid Drake's Piercing the Veil is a noteworthy exception), so this probably wasn't my best choice for an introduction to el'Zabar's work.

That said, he and Bang do play quite well together. I much preferred the tunes where he gets away from the trap kit...I found something of an incongruity between drums & violin that was eased by the other instruments. "Sweet Irene" features some gorgeously recorded hand drums, and while el'Zabar's rhythm doesn't vary too much (on this track), the beauty of the drums' sound makes up for it. On "The Dream Merchant" he turns to what sounds like a prepared thumb piano, and it's sound mates well with Bang's pizzicato...a high point on the album; as was "The Ituri Fantasy" with el'Zabar on berimbao.

My favorite track for sure, however, was their take on "Old Time Religion" (another with hand drums). I assume that's el'Zabar singing...he does a great job with it! They move from a fairly straight take on the blues-drenched spiritual and slowly melt it into something more abstract & trance-inducing. Funky, soul-stirring & mesmerizing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by s m @ Quote: the remarkable Dave Holland album Extended Play: Live at Birdland Finally, I also can vouch for this album. Very very nice, and anyone looking for something that's adventurous without being abrasive or 'out there' sounding should really pick this up.

Exactly...that's what I love about this album. Holland started out as quite an "out cat" (played on *itches Brew...played with Anthony Braxton...Conference of the Birds and all that) but like a lot of "out cats" when he finally got around to doing more straight ahead stuff it was far more interesting than it would have been had he not started out experimenting. Everything I've heard of his last, I don't know, 8 albums (or so) for ECM has been great, and all the material for this live date was culled from those records, only here they really stretch out on them (hence the name, Extended Play). The band had been playing together consistently for over 5 years, and the amount of mental telepathy they share is astonishing.

 

[wab]

Quote:

Originally Posted by gratefulshrink wab, what Sun Ra did you try? There are several mellower albums he made, still available on CD.

Quote:

Originally Posted by s m @ To wab: If the Sun Ra stuff that turned you off seemed to be (let's take a wild stab here) a bunch of aimless chanting with an occasional incoherent racket or something, not all of his stuff is like that. If you need a more conventional starting point you should maybe try The Sound Of Joy, which is pleasant jazz by almost any standard.

s m @, exactly!

But ok, I'll give him another chance.

 

[Voltron]

Quote:

Originally Posted by clarke68 I love Rhapsody.

I do too, Clarke, and I have taken you up on some of your recommendations in this fine thread. I love just thinking up a band or genre and playing whatever I want. And I haven't found much that is unavailable. This week this thread inspired me to play some Eric Dolphy, Derek Baily (your rec and I enjoyed it very much), and my personal favorite Ornette Coleman.

 

[gratefulshrink]

Quote:

Originally Posted by wab s m @, exactly! But ok, I'll give him another chance.

In addtion to Sound of Joy, and from a similar period (1960-61), you might try Jazz in Silhouette and The Futuristic Sounds of Sun Ra.

Then there were a couple of mellow/spacey (almost ambient) albums from 1978: Lanquidity and The Other Side of the Sun

 

[li0n]

I actually have no clue when it comes to jazz. But there are some tracks on the Cowboy Bebop soundtrack (an anime for those of you who don't know) which was produced by Yoko Kanno. Two tracks, "Goodnight Julia" which is basically a jazz and piano duet, and "Space Lion" which is a jazz/variety of other instruments with some American-Indian like chanting in the backround (you would understand why if you watch the anime ).

What I would like to know is what sort of 'genre' these two pieces fall under in 'Jazz'.

 

[Coltrane]

Quote:

Originally Posted by gratefulshrink In addtion to Sound of Joy, and from a similar period (1960-61), you might try Jazz in Silhouette and The Futuristic Sounds of Sun Ra. Then there were a couple of mellow/spacey (almost ambient) albums from 1978: Lanquidity and The Other Side of the Sun

Jazz in Silhouette is a stunningly gorgeous record. Definitely a whole different type of Sun Ra, HIGHLY reccomend to anyone who likes any sort of big band jazz. Its more Duke than Free Jazz.

That being said, I love the crazy stuff by him too. I never did get into the chanting though.

I suppose I should mention my favorite non-Coltrane free record, Evan Parker's 50th Birthday Concert. Amazing stuff.

 

[robert]

Paul Bley

been around for a very long time. most of what I have is in storage, though I got "Nothing to Declare" yesterday. now I remember why I liked his music. got to retrieve the others.

category: more out than Jarrett, but not so far as Taylor. a Monk-ish angularity, but more lyrical. tends to stay in the middle registers. the sound on "Nothing..." is quite good. an A/B with solo Andrew Hill might prove difficult to decide.

 

[Csericks]

How about Fred Anderson?

 

[AudioJunkie]

Fred Anderson is great, I like Fred Anderson & DKV Trio and Birdhouse.

I also highly reccommend Charles Gayle his Touchin on Trane album is amazing.

Mats Gustafsson is awesome. I highly enjoy his work. His band, The Thing, is very interesting.

Mount Everest Trio, Waves from Albert Ayler, is a great album. I love Gilbert Holmstrom's piercing but warm tone.