[kithng]

Hi,

I heard many good thing of foobar here, but most of my music are ripped in Apple lossless format which cannot recognize by foobar.

is it worth to encode all my music in something foobar can play and use it instead of itunes ??

will it give better quality than itunes ?

also, what's the best configuration of foobar with my emu 0404 ???

thanks for your help.

 

[Wodgy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kithng is it worth to encode all my music in something foobar can play and use it instead of itunes ??

Since your music is losslessly encoded, there are programs that will transcode it into another format without having to re-rip, so even if you do make the switch it won't be that painful.

Quote:

will it give better quality than itunes ?

In general, no. They should sound identical, all things being equal. However, with the EMU 0404 on Windows you need to use ASIO to bypass kMixer and get a bit-perfect output, and iTunes does not yet support ASIO, so you may find things do improve a bit if you switch to Foobar.

 

[Jon L]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wodgy iTunes does not yet support ASIO, so you may find things do improve a bit if you switch to Foobar.

Where can one get some definitive answers regarding iTunes in Windows regarding bit-perfect and K-mixer, ASIO issues? I sure can't find it on Apple website.

For example, when using iTunes in Windows, do we know if it bypasses K-mixer or not?

Is there any way to pass bit-perfect data through iTunes in Windows even if ASIO is "not supported"?

iTunes/windows and Foobar/ASIO sound VERY different with lossless files at this point in time through same PC/audiophile speaker setup.

 

[Edwood]

You are using Windows, right?

Otherwise, you only have one choice.

-Ed

 

[blessingx]

I don't believe ASIO comes into play with OS X (though it did with OS 9 and before).

 

[Mr.Radar]

Quote:

Originally Posted by blessingx I don't believe ASIO comes into play with OS X (though it did with OS 9 and before).

Even without ASIO, I think that Apple's Core Audio audio interface is bit-perfect, at least with iTunes (on Apple's website there is an article describing how to play DTS-WAV files using the optical output on the G5 PowerMac or AirPort Express base-station)

 

[Eagle_Driver]

If you're using Windows, then everything that's being played through iTunes will go through the Windows Kmixer, which will resample audio from 16/44.1 to 16/44.1 and changes the bits as it resamples to the same bitrate. In other words, the output will not be bit-perfect.

There is a way to convert Apple Lossless files back into WAV files using iTunes. I did exactly that with some of my songs which I forgot to identify/title correctly. Simply convert the Apple Lossless selections to WAV using the WAV converter (you will not be deleting your "original" ALAC files; instead, you'll be creating new, larger-sized WAV copies of your ALAC files). The resulting WAV files will then play back through foobar2000.

 

[Halbyrd]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eagle_Driver There is a way to convert Apple Lossless files back into WAV files using iTunes. I did exactly that with some of my songs which I forgot to identify/title correctly. Simply convert the Apple Lossless selections to WAV using the WAV converter (you will not be deleting your "original" ALAC files; instead, you'll be creating new, larger-sized WAV copies of your ALAC files). The resulting WAV files will then play back through foobar2000.

At this point, you'll probably want to re-compress these WAV files into another, more widely-accepted lossless format--FLAC, MPC, and APE seem to be the most popular options around here, I use FLAC, personally. There's no real benefit to this other than reducing the filesize, but unless you've got a multi-terabyte storage server lying around, you'll probably appreciate the space savings.

RareWares's Lossless page is a good place to find programs (commandline encoders and GUI frontends) to do this. Alternatively, you can use one of foobar's diskwriter presets, but this method is harder to fine-tune.

 

[Jon L]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eagle_Driver If you're using Windows, then everything that's being played through iTunes will go through the Windows Kmixer, which will resample audio from 16/44.1 to 16/44.1 and changes the bits as it resamples to the same bitrate. In other words, the output will not be bit-perfect. There is a way to convert Apple Lossless files back into WAV files using iTunes. I did exactly that with some of my songs which I forgot to identify/title correctly. Simply convert the Apple Lossless selections to WAV using the WAV converter (you will not be deleting your "original" ALAC files; instead, you'll be creating new, larger-sized WAV copies of your ALAC files). The resulting WAV files will then play back through foobar2000.

So you are saying iTunes/Mac is bit-perfect but iTunes/Windows is not due to k-mixer, and therefore sounds worse. I could believe it, but can you point to some sort of official document that states this?

I already convert apple lossless files to Flac using dBpoweramp software, which then plays on Foobar for my main system. Problem is, my iPod doesn't support Flac, so currently I have duplicate files, one in apple lossless and one in Flac!

 

[blessingx]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jon L So you are saying iTunes/Mac is bit-perfect but iTunes/Windows is not due to k-mixer, and therefore sounds worse.

Probably should read "could potentially sound worse" as bit-perfect != audibly perfect.

 

[flambo]

So does this mean that iTunes sound better in Mac then Windows? Foobar will sound better if ASIO is used to bypass kMixer then iTunes that goes through kMixer? Maybe Apple should get on this and put a fix to bypass the kMixer!

 

[DukeTogo]

I have read that if you are streaming from iTunes to an Airport Express that this bypasses kmixer. I believe if you are using certain USB audio devices, such as an Apogee Mini-DAC or (I think) an M-Audio Transit that this also bypasses Kmixer, but I'm not sure on that. There is also a generic ASIO device which maybe can help you if you want it... I have no idea, not played with it:

http://michael.tippach.bei.t-online....all/intro.html

Honestly for the effort, I would bet most people can't tell the difference in sound between players... but everyone loves to think they have golden ears. It's like when you ask people if they have better than average skills at "anything"... you always find that more than 50% of people say yes. So somebody's clearly wrong. Anyway end of rant. I'd suggest you convert a small selection of your Apple Lossless tunes to FLAC (or whatever lossless codec) and listen via the two different players. Assuming that you can account for all differences (levels, etc) and you don't have any bias (or set-up a double blind AB/ABX type testing) then you should get your answer. If you can't tell the difference, then keep using iTunes and go back to enjoying your music.

Also foobar has a really weak interface in my opinion. I've got 1000's of lossless tracks and growing in iTunes (Windows) and it's simply the most enjoyable way for me to manage and listen to my music. I still encode using EAC, but I couldn't fathom using foobar to manage and playback that many songs. Maybe foobar's improved in the last while or got some decent library plugins but I was seriously dissatisfied with the user-interface - at the time all I got was one big fat linear list. The rest of the stuff it did was fine.

foobar does have some funky plugins/options that iTunes will probably never see, whether this is worth putting up with converting your music and using foobar daily as your player is up to you.

 

[Asmo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DukeTogo I have read that if you are streaming from iTunes to an Airport Express that this bypasses kmixer. I believe if you are using certain USB audio devices, such as an Apogee Mini-DAC or (I think) an M-Audio Transit that this also bypasses Kmixer, but I'm not sure on that. There is also a generic ASIO device which maybe can help you if you want it... I have no idea, not played with it: http://michael.tippach.bei.t-online....all/intro.html Honestly for the effort, I would bet most people can't tell the difference in sound between players... but everyone loves to think they have golden ears. It's like when you ask people if they have better than average skills at "anything"... you always find that more than 50% of people say yes. So somebody's clearly wrong. Anyway end of rant. I'd suggest you convert a small selection of your Apple Lossless tunes to FLAC (or whatever lossless codec) and listen via the two different players. Assuming that you can account for all differences (levels, etc) and you don't have any bias (or set-up a double blind AB/ABX type testing) then you should get your answer. If you can't tell the difference, then keep using iTunes and go back to enjoying your music. Also foobar has a really weak interface in my opinion. I've got 1000's of lossless tracks and growing in iTunes (Windows) and it's simply the most enjoyable way for me to manage and listen to my music. I still encode using EAC, but I couldn't fathom using foobar to manage and playback that many songs. Maybe foobar's improved in the last while or got some decent library plugins but I was seriously dissatisfied with the user-interface - at the time all I got was one big fat linear list. The rest of the stuff it did was fine. foobar does have some funky plugins/options that iTunes will probably never see, whether this is worth putting up with converting your music and using foobar daily as your player is up to you.

I use foobar because I love tabbed playlists for managing music, and you can simply use the plugin for foobar that mimics itunes interface. I use foobar because it provides more power, technically, and UI over my music.

 

[DukeTogo]

Asmo,

I'll have to give foobar another chance then.

Thx for the info.
DT

 

[Asmo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DukeTogo Asmo, I'll have to give foobar another chance then. Thx for the info. DT

I'm just saying, I know a lot of ppl absolutely love the iTunes UI, I think it is pretty snazzy too, but the foobar one is not bad, and again, I am a huge fan of tabbed playlists