[Frankie D]

Yeah I'm planning on hopping on that VE tour once this COVID-19 situation dies down a bit. I tried the Luna, it was good but it wasn't what I was looking for.



I actually got to AB the VE8 and Solaris SE last year, but it was only for a short time. Trying to demo them again after this COVID-19 thing cools down.

One thing about the VE-8 if you test it out. Try using a different cable than what VE sends. I just recently put a Horus cable on mine and it was like I had a different IEM. I was wondering what all the fuss was about with the VE-8. Once attached to the better cable it became airy and more open, yet smoother in the treble. The bass also had more impact. A very noticeable improvement. Some IEM’s do not exhibit a difference, the VE-8 did. Listening to some Holly Cole last night it definitely outperformed the Elysium and Fourte. It had a beautiful timber and did a great job on the bass in her trio. You could feel the strings vibrate.

 

[acvjim]

Oh man what were the build quality issues? I've been interested in the Khan and would love to know.

To answer your question from someone who actually has inside information...The original Khan had sockets that chemically reacted to uncured UV resin that was used to hold the sockets in the shell. On the assembly line there was a UV curing light that was not up to full power, which resulted in uncured resin, which caused some of the sockets to begin to chemically break down. We had no idea of the problem as it took weeks for the problem to manifest and it was nothing that could be caught during QC. To fix the problem, we switched sockets to a type of socket made from a material that will not react with uncured UV resin, switched out all the lights on the assembly line, and made the sockets recessed. We also replaced any Khans that had any socket issues, no questions asked. Since the second generation of Khans have come out, we have not had a single Khan returned for socket issues. I know that mvvRAZ likes to tell everyone that he had problems with the second generation as well, but I suspect that the issue he had was a small piece of plastic that was designed to break off the first time a cable is installed in the socket. Sometimes the piece of plastic would bend rather than break, which prevented the cable from being properly inserted. It was an issue that was easily fixed without having to send the IEM in for repairs, and had he contacted us regarding the problem, we could have easily addressed it. As for the Sultan, it is an all aluminum shell, does not utilize UV resins, and frankly could probably be ran over by your car without taking structural damage (not recommended). The Sultan has been in development for 2 years, long before the Khan was launched, and was not developed as a result of issues with the build of the Khan (which since generation 2 was introduced has had a failure rate of less than 0.01%). The Sultan is also not simply an updated Khan as it utilizes different drivers and does in fact have a different sound signature. It is more expensive because it is significantly more expensive and complex to build, as the shell starts from a solid block of aluminum and is carved out from the solid block. The electrostatic drivers are also very expensive and complicated to install in an IEM. Hope that answers some of your questions. Cheers.

 

[hkpants]

To answer your question from someone who actually has inside information...The original Khan had sockets that chemically reacted to uncured UV resin that was used to hold the sockets in the shell. On the assembly line there was a UV curing light that was not up to full power, which resulted in uncured resin, which caused some of the sockets to begin to chemically break down. We had no idea of the problem as it took weeks for the problem to manifest and it was nothing that could be caught during QC. To fix the problem, we switched sockets to a type of socket made from a material that will not react with uncured UV resin, switched out all the lights on the assembly line, and made the sockets recessed. We also replaced any Khans that had any socket issues, no questions asked. Since the second generation of Khans have come out, we have not had a single Khan returned for socket issues. I know that mvvRAZ likes to tell everyone that he had problems with the second generation as well, but I suspect that the issue he had was a small piece of plastic that was designed to break off the first time a cable is installed in the socket. Sometimes the piece of plastic would bend rather than break, which prevented the cable from being properly inserted. It was an issue that was easily fixed without having to send the IEM in for repairs, and had he contacted us regarding the problem, we could have easily addressed it. As for the Sultan, it is an all aluminum shell, does not utilize UV resins, and frankly could probably be ran over by your car without taking structural damage (not recommended). The Sultan has been in development for 2 years, long before the Khan was launched, and was not developed as a result of issues with the build of the Khan (which since generation 2 was introduced has had a failure rate of less than 0.01%). The Sultan is also not simply an updated Khan as it utilizes different drivers and does in fact have a different sound signature. It is more expensive because it is significantly more expensive and complex to build, as the shell starts from a solid block of aluminum and is carved out from the solid block. The electrostatic drivers are also very expensive and complicated to install in an IEM. Hope that answers some of your questions. Cheers.

Appreciate the response. Will be keeping an eye out on those sultan reviews, I'm generally interested.

 

[Frankie D]

To answer your question from someone who actually has inside information...The original Khan had sockets that chemically reacted to uncured UV resin that was used to hold the sockets in the shell. On the assembly line there was a UV curing light that was not up to full power, which resulted in uncured resin, which caused some of the sockets to begin to chemically break down. We had no idea of the problem as it took weeks for the problem to manifest and it was nothing that could be caught during QC. To fix the problem, we switched sockets to a type of socket made from a material that will not react with uncured UV resin, switched out all the lights on the assembly line, and made the sockets recessed. We also replaced any Khans that had any socket issues, no questions asked. Since the second generation of Khans have come out, we have not had a single Khan returned for socket issues. I know that mvvRAZ likes to tell everyone that he had problems with the second generation as well, but I suspect that the issue he had was a small piece of plastic that was designed to break off the first time a cable is installed in the socket. Sometimes the piece of plastic would bend rather than break, which prevented the cable from being properly inserted. It was an issue that was easily fixed without having to send the IEM in for repairs, and had he contacted us regarding the problem, we could have easily addressed it. As for the Sultan, it is an all aluminum shell, does not utilize UV resins, and frankly could probably be ran over by your car without taking structural damage (not recommended). The Sultan has been in development for 2 years, long before the Khan was launched, and was not developed as a result of issues with the build of the Khan (which since generation 2 was introduced has had a failure rate of less than 0.01%). The Sultan is also not simply an updated Khan as it utilizes different drivers and does in fact have a different sound signature. It is more expensive because it is significantly more expensive and complex to build, as the shell starts from a solid block of aluminum and is carved out from the solid block. The electrostatic drivers are also very expensive and complicated to install in an IEM. Hope that answers some of your questions. Cheers.

Yes, but you also left out the issues with the Khan and an iPhone, even an iPhone connected via Dragonfly Red to the Khan. There is a hum. It can be alleviated by using Noble’s lightening cable or even Noble’s least expensive black cable. But the issue exists with the Khan cable. My understanding from Noble is that was not corrected in V2 either. John, aka the wizard, did post that there is no issue with the Sultan and the iPhone.

 

[acvjim]

The iphone issue is related to electromagnetic interference associated primarily with the iPhone dongle and the piezo driver which is particularly sensitive to such interference. We produced an electromagnetic filter adapter for the Khan and sent them to all purchasers of the Khan, and all new Khan now come with the filter. The Sultan does not have a piezo driver and the electrostatic drivers do not suffer from the same sensitivity issues.

 

[Jalo]

Is there a consensus or some kind of general agreement that electrostatic driver as treble drivers out perform other platforms? I.e. DD, BA, Planner etc as far as IEM is concern. The past two years have seen a number of electrostati/piezo implementations of this technology like the Khan, Trinity, Elysium, Wraith, Sultan etc. These are more expensive drivers as the above post indicates but I don”t seem to read that these are necessary sound better straightly because of the driver technology and not because of the tuning of the whole sound signature. This is a general question and not specifically referring to the above posts.

 

[toaster]

I have not seen a consensus on this.

Based on personal experience, I do not think estats produce the best treble I’ve heard to date.

Things are always changing, however, and nobody knows what driver configuration and tuning will produce the best sound tomorrow...

 

[hkpants]

I have only heard one estat driver and have never heard any planars for IEMs. The one estat I heard (AAW Canary) did not impress me at all.

 

[Wyville]

Is there a consensus or some kind of general agreement that electrostatic driver as treble drivers out perform other platforms? I.e. DD, BA, Planner etc as far as IEM is concern. The past two years have seen a number of electrostati/piezo implementations of this technology like the Khan, Trinity, Elysium, Wraith, Sultan etc. These are more expensive drivers as the above post indicates but I don”t seem to read that these are necessary sound better straightly because of the driver technology and not because of the tuning of the whole sound signature. This is a general question and not specifically referring to the above posts.

I think the key question is not so much if these drivers are better, but rather if the drivers when implemented optimally have certain advantages. Implementation is key because anyone can buy EST drivers and sell IEMs with those at a premium because... marketing. However (just as an example), knowing Vision Ears a little bit, I would expect that the Elysium have each of their driver types implemented optimally. The question is then, could the same result have been achieved without the EST drivers? I have no idea, but that is a far more interesting question than whether or not EST drivers are "better".

 

[gnahra]

Is there a consensus or some kind of general agreement that electrostatic driver as treble drivers out perform other platforms? I.e. DD, BA, Planner etc as far as IEM is concern. The past two years have seen a number of electrostati/piezo implementations of this technology like the Khan, Trinity, Elysium, Wraith, Sultan etc. These are more expensive drivers as the above post indicates but I don”t seem to read that these are necessary sound better straightly because of the driver technology and not because of the tuning of the whole sound signature. This is a general question and not specifically referring to the above posts.

I am by no means qualified to say one is better than another, but I can say (as an owner of a Valk and other IEMs with BA drivers as a comparison) that a well implemented estat sounds very different from a BA driver (and I’m sure there are folks who have also listened to the 1ZR and can compare the sound signature of that as a DD for treble to estats and BAs). I would also say that it’s not just the implementation of the estat itself, but how it’s implemented alongside the other drivers. For example, I find that - in the case of the Valk - the estat alongside the W9 for lows is a fantastic combo.
What is “better” is likely subjective anyhow, right?

 

[EagleWings]

Did you guys know there is a new flagship from Oriolus by the name Trailli?

The price? Don’t even ask..

 

[SLC1966]

I have only heard one estat driver and have never heard any planars for IEMs. The one estat I heard (AAW Canary) did not impress me at all.

Everything I like about the AAW Canary has nothing to do with the estat drivers in it. The pleasure of the Canary is the bass (isobaric DDs), the smoothness and excellent soundstage. I had to get over trying to hear something special about the estate drivers before I could hear the other pleasures of the Canary.

 

[Wyville]

Did you guys know there was flagship from Oriolus by the name Trailli?

The price? Don’t even ask..

...$6k?!

 

[buonassi]

Did you guys know there was flagship from Oriolus by the name Trailli?

The price? Don’t even ask..

https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/oriolus-traillii-jp.24343/reviews

 

[davidcotton]

...$6k?!

Was wondering I hadn't seen any requests for a comparison between spiral ears and oriolus lately...