Flexijack I/O module alternative for your X-fi
May 20, 2008 at 2:15 AM Thread Starter Post #1 of 17

skeptic

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While creative would have you cash out for an I/O module to turn your "flexijack" into something useful...

I just discovered that BlueJeansCables offers the Belden 1505F Digital Audio Cable in 1/8 mini --> RCA. This will run straight from your X-fi flexijack to the digital coax input on your dac, for a little over $20. (Digital Audio Cables at Blue Jeans Cable)

I thought I would post the info here in case anyone else has been looking for a way around the I/O module.
 
May 21, 2008 at 5:22 AM Post #3 of 17
Any 1/8th to RCA has always worked. I believe right RCA is digital out, and white RCA is digital input. I could be backwards though.

The flexijack module simply adds the optical ports too.
 
May 21, 2008 at 7:03 PM Post #4 of 17
Quote:

Originally Posted by Redo /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Any 1/8th to RCA has always worked. I believe right RCA is digital out, and white RCA is digital input. I could be backwards though.

The flexijack module simply adds the optical ports too.



Yeah. I found a few posts discussing various options relying on converters or splitters (aside from the I/O module), but my goal was to find a single good quality interconnect to convey the digital signal without any low grade converters.

For example:

Some people were using mini --> rca mono converters from radioshack in order to run digital coax. (RadioShack.com - Cables, Parts & Connectors: Connectors & connectivity: A/V connectors & adapters: RadioShack Gold Series 1/8" Mono Plug to RCA Phono Jack),

Others have used a strange 1/8 mini --> optical converter from amazon [NOT to be confused with minitoslink --> toslink which is more readily available] to output optical.
See user comments (Amazon.com: TOSLINK TO OPTICAL MINI ADAPTER: Electronics)

I have also read about people using the 1/8 mini --> stereo rca splitters for this purpose, as you described, although I am also unable to recall which channel becomes the digital output...

But what I really wanted was a way to use a single, decent quality interconnect cable, and I was really pumped to see that BlueJeans offers one at a pretty reasonable price!

Just thought I would summarize my efforts and findings here in case anyone else is attempting to cope with Creative's hideous design decision. Flexijack, blech.
 
May 21, 2008 at 9:21 PM Post #5 of 17
It takes a few seconds to find out which one is output and which one is input. Either you hear audio or you don't
tongue.gif




A high quality adapter vs a radio shack adapter for digital audio will make no difference. Maybe there's a valid theoretical debate amongst the best of the high end equipment, but it would be scrapped because you're using the X-Fi's clock anyhow.

A cheap 1/8th to female RCA Stereo adapter from radio shack is the best choice.
 
May 21, 2008 at 10:26 PM Post #6 of 17
BJC represents that connectors are important, and that it matters to have, "plugs [that] are designed for the best possible impedance match with 75 ohm ...[digital] coax."

You seem to have taken the position that a stereo rca converter from radioshack is as good or better than a BJC assembled Belden 1505F cable with a Canare 1/8" miniplug. I don't see how this bears out with the underlying principle of impedance matching.

I would greatly appreciate an actual explanation (absent condescension if possible) so that I can understand the basis for your position that "[a] cheap 1/8th to female RCA Stereo adapter from radio shack is the best choice."
 
May 22, 2008 at 5:28 AM Post #7 of 17
Quote:

Originally Posted by skeptic /img/forum/go_quote.gif
BJC represents that connectors are important, and that it matters to have, "plugs [that] are designed for the best possible impedance match with 75 ohm ...[digital] coax."

You seem to have taken the position that a stereo rca converter from radioshack is as good or better than a BJC assembled Belden 1505F cable with a Canare 1/8" miniplug. I don't see how this bears out with the underlying principle of impedance matching.

I would greatly appreciate an actual explanation (absent condescension if possible) so that I can understand the basis for your position that "[a] cheap 1/8th to female RCA Stereo adapter from radio shack is the best choice."



A simple radio shack adapter is better because it's cheaper a will have no audible impact vs the more expensive adapter. Sure, you're not getting a balls to the wall "75ohm optimized" cable, but at the same time there will be zero audible difference, especially with the X-Fi.

Either the bits get there or they don't.
 
May 22, 2008 at 7:38 AM Post #8 of 17
That's not an explanation, but rather an unsupported denial that the quality of a digital interconnect has any bearing on sound quality.

The canare 1/8 plug through BJC added a mere $5 to the cost of my basic digital coax cable. How much is your proposed radioshack rca splitter? If cost is your primary criteria, why aren't you advocating for the 1/8 -> rca mono converter? Did you even bother to review the various options I discussed above before pronouncing your judgment?

I have proposed a good quality low cost solution to avoid the I/O module. You have proposed a low quality low cost solution which employs an unnecessary rca splitter. I'm still waiting for some actual justification as to why your solution is the "best."

It also strikes me that you don't even appear to own an X-fi - so query: do you actually have any experience with the Creative Flexijack that justifies your forceful attempts to weigh in on the value of a decent budget interconnect?
 
May 22, 2008 at 8:53 AM Post #9 of 17
Quote:

Originally Posted by skeptic /img/forum/go_quote.gif
That's not an explanation, but rather an unsupported denial that the quality of a digital interconnect has any bearing on sound quality.

The canare 1/8 plug through BJC added a mere $5 to the cost of my basic digital coax cable. How much is your proposed radioshack rca splitter? If cost is your primary criteria, why aren't you advocating for the 1/8 -> rca mono converter? Did you even bother to review the various options I discussed above before pronouncing your judgment?

I have proposed a good quality low cost solution to avoid the I/O module. You have proposed a low quality low cost solution which employs an unnecessary rca splitter. I'm still waiting for some actual justification as to why your solution is the "best."

It also strikes me that you don't even appear to own an X-fi - so query: do you actually have any experience with the Creative Flexijack that justifies your forceful attempts to weigh in on the value of a decent budget interconnect?




I'm simply stating, any cheapo 1/8th to RCA stereo will perform identically. I say the RCA stereo over mono so you can get the digital input as well. The reason I'm saying the cheapie is "better" is because the end result will be the same without spending extra money.

The whole digital interconnect debate has been beaten to death. In the situation of the X-Fi, so long as any ol' short adapter is in working condition, it makes no difference. Whether it be a $0.60 monoprice adapter, a $20 BJC adapter, or a thousand dollar adapter. The DAC will receive the bits all the same.

It's sorta like getting suckered into a $200 Monster HDMI cable. All the data is digital anyhow, so it either works or doesn't. The $10 monoprice one works just as well as the $200 Monster one.


BTW, I've had an X-Fi for years. I switched to the Juli@ last week for recording purposes.
 
May 22, 2008 at 5:55 PM Post #10 of 17
Thanks for clarifying your experience with the X-fi, and I honestly, I agree with you up to a certain point about the relative stability of a digital signal.

I do buy my HDMI cables from monoprice, but I tend to throw down for the $15 shielded cable rather than the $3 "equivalent," so as to avoid the minor risk of interference, and also to alleviate compatibility issues that seem somewhat prevalent in and among the lowest quality digital cables.

However, my understanding of digital audio is that impedance matching between the cables and connectors does actually matter in ensuring that your 1's and 0's are passed along to your DAC in a timely and accurate fashion. Consider the following excerpt from (UltimateAVmag.com: The Great Audio Cable Debate), the final paragraph being the most relevant ::
-----
Electrical Factors
Everyone agrees there are several electrical factors that clearly affect the aural performance of audio cables. For example, all conductors (except superconductors) exhibit electrical resistance, which is called impedance in the presence of an alternating current such as an audio signal. Resistance to DC current is measured in ohms per foot; the longer the cable, the higher the DC resistance. However, the size of the conductor must also be considered; the larger the diameter of the wire, the lower the DC resistance. AC impedance is also measured in ohms, but it is independent of length.

DC resistance is important only in speaker wire. According to Marc Dimmitt, former technical support manager for Clark Wire and Cable, "If you run a small-gauge wire 100 feet from a power amp to a subwoofer, you're just going to burn up the wire. Most of that energy is going to dissipate as heat; it's not going to make it to the voice coil and move the speaker cone back and forth. This tends to compress the dynamic range of the sound as well."
DC resistance is important only in speaker wire. According to Marc Dimmitt, former technical support manager for Clark Wire and Cable, "If you run a small-gauge wire 100 feet from a power amp to a subwoofer, you're just going to burn up the wire. Most of that energy is going to dissipate as heat; it's not going to make it to the voice coil and move the speaker cone back and forth. This tends to compress the dynamic range of the sound as well."

AC impedance is important mostly for electrical digital audio cables. (Of course, none of this discussion is relevant for optical digital audio cables.) Unlike analog audio, digital audio signals are sent at frequencies in the megahertz range. This requires a cable that exhibits a very specific AC impedance: S/PDIF requires an impedance of 75Ω:, while AES/EBU requires 110Ω.

[Paragraph on mic inputs omitted.]

One problem to overcome in digital cables is return loss. According to Bruce Jackson, former vice president at Apogee Electronics, "If the cable and connectors are mismatched in terms of impedance, the digital pulses bounce back and forth, interacting with each other, which causes them to distort. When you have it all correctly impedance-matched, you don't get reflections."
------

Ultimately, I'm not talking about buying an exotic cable here. The point is that the impedance matched 1/8 BJC Canare adapter is only $5, amounting to a total cost of $26 for a 10 foot 75Ω good quality cable. I imagine my costs out the door at Radioshack would be right in the same ballpark.

If I needed a digital input, I'll grant you that the 1/8 to stereo rca would be a handy interconnect to use, but for my purposes, and at roughly the same cost, I believe my solution increases the probability that my DAC will be receiving a bit perfect digital signal.

If you wholly reject the underlying concepts in the article quoted above, I suppose you and I will just have to agree to disagree about the relative merits of alternatives to the creative I/O module.
 
May 22, 2008 at 10:36 PM Post #11 of 17
Hell, for only $5 or so it's hard not to grab that cable. There may be a technical difference in impedance, and the BJC is definitely a better cable, but I still believe the end result will be the same (unless there's massive problems with the cable).

I already have an adapter or two though, so I'm not going to spend more. But if you need one, for the price of the BJC, it's sorta hard to go wrong.
 
Jul 27, 2008 at 3:46 PM Post #12 of 17
Just a heads up, a 1/8" mono adapter from Rat Shack works as well. Next time I place a order from BJC, I plan on ordering their digital cable with the correct termination.

Thanks all!
 
Jul 27, 2008 at 4:41 PM Post #13 of 17
I bought a "digital" rca cable from ratshack with an 1/8" mono adapter also front ratshack for about $15 out the door several years ago. Surely the BJ cable is of higher quality but the increased cost would not have been justified imo; BJ cable may be "Cheap" relatively speaking but they still charge a decent amount in my experience. It would probably cost you in the vacinity of $30 shipped to have a 6 foot cable.

Not to threadcrap but I would also agree with Redo in that there's no way the cable will sound better.
 
Jul 27, 2008 at 4:45 PM Post #14 of 17
I need about 15' and I doubt Rat Shack would carry one that long. Otherwise, I'd be more than willing to give it a try, it would only be a drop in the bucket compared to the amount of money I've spent on cables.

Currently I'm using a Goertz digital coax, which is probably your basic 1694A, but I like their very snug termination. Too bad BJC doesn't offer locking RCA's, IMO, their regular RCA's are usually very loose fitting.
 
Jul 28, 2008 at 9:16 PM Post #15 of 17
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr.Sneis /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I bought a "digital" rca cable from ratshack with an 1/8" mono adapter also front ratshack for about $15 out the door several years ago. Surely the BJ cable is of higher quality but the increased cost would not have been justified imo; BJ cable may be "Cheap" relatively speaking but they still charge a decent amount in my experience. It would probably cost you in the vacinity of $30 shipped to have a 6 foot cable.

Not to threadcrap but I would also agree with Redo in that there's no way the cable will sound better.



I think it depends on what you mean by "sound better." For example, I certainly wouldn't expect a higher quality digital cable to increase detail or open up the soundstage.

But if the goal is to pass a bit-perfect signal to your DAC - and to ensure that no bits bounce back at the end of the cable - then impedance matched connectors do matter. (see my 5-22 post in this thread.) A few extra-dollars to avoid a well-documented issue in digital signal transmission seemed like a reasonable economic choice to me.

If you find some authority that disputes the relevance of impedance matching, I'd be interested to see it.
 

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