[james444]

  So glad you joined this discussion Now I have nice marking and will have hybrids in the next few days, not mentioning your great impressions

  For me, a non-analytical approach is more helpful. That of just listening to varied material especially including non-musical natural sounds (not just nature but human-centric environments too) and noticing your instinctive reaction to those sounds.

 
Such is life, some people will welcome these posts, and for others they'll prove less helpful. I think I can live with that.
 
That said, glad I didn't content myself with just trying to adapt, since my methodical approach is yielding results that change my opinion on the R2Pros.
 

 

James444 I absolutely agree with you.

 
That's kinda unfortunate, because it looks like I'll have to retract my earlier statement.

 

 

[BucketInABucket]

@BucketInABucket
, I've recently gotten my R2Pros, but already shipped out the Heaven VII review tour unit I recently had the opportunity to play with. wrote an in-depth review here on the heaven vii & was able to do direct comparisons against the r2a.

In terms of sonics (from audio memory), I would estimate that the Heaven VII pretty easily wins overall against the flare audio IEMs. (particularly in terms of perceived sound stage and treble tuning which I thought were especially well-done on the 7s). Other than that, I don't really like to make too much detailed comparisons with items I never got the chance to test side-by-side, but the differences in those two particular sonic attributes was significant enough that I am comfortable talking about without a direct comparison. the flare IEMs are relatively more comfortable for me, and are significantly cheaper even at full retail price. since there is quite a large price difference between the r2pro and heaven 7, it is hard to say whether the extra investment is worth the difference in money for you. I would note that is a noticeable difference to both my ears and my non-audiophile friends' ears between the heaven vii vs the r2a. the difference is relatively much larger than the difference between the r2a vs the r2pro (in my opinion). The differences in technically ability between the r2a and r2pros do not seem to be very noticeable to me with the larger difference being their sound signature. perhaps the r2pros may be slightly faster with slightly better overall clarity and bass tightness than the r2as, but really I think the relatively brighter sound signature of the r2pro over the r2a more bass-emphasized sound signature is the more noticeable difference.

I was actually driving myself a little bit crazy with some recent blind testing. Some of my findings were a bit inconsistent, which suggests to me that the differences between them are more subtle than I first initially thought. (Or may also be due to sonic differences from differing fits when I remove and reinsert as well I suppose). I do think you can pick up the relatively brighter sound of the r2pro pretty consistently over the bassier nature of the r2a, but actually a bit hard for me to decide which sound I prefer. Flip flops based on my mood and genre hahaha.
 
From my recent extensive side-by-side testing, I would actually say that really the difference between the r2a and r2pros are more akin to flavor differences than truly significant and easy to appreciate improvements in technical ability. that being said, I am not disappointed with either flare audio IEM at their kickstarter price point and they do offer easy to appreciate improvements over some of the entry-level IEMs I've played with, particularly in their perceived speed. Bass notes are very tight and clean.

Anyone else with both the r2a and r2pro who engaged in any sort of non-sighted blind testing?

Thank you very much for your detailed impressions! I was hoping for a few words cause it was a very top-of-my-head question but you blew my socks away with that analysis!

Btw, the R2Pro does very well with bass EQ for electronic tracks and I have a FAD Heaven VI on the way (which is where my question on the Heaven VII popped up) and will be doing direct comparisons as soon as they arrive!

 

[TwinACStacks]

 
I have heard some not so flattering things about the iem you're talking about ymmv ofc. I almost pulled the trigger on a set but the impressions brought the hype down to earth for me

Red, Unfortunately Everyone Hears things differently, that's why there is Chocolate AND Vanilla. Don't get me wrong the R2A are Very Good. Just not my Taste.
 

TWIN

 

[LuckyNat]

  LuckyNat: I lived with the R2As for days before I put in my CIEMs (CT-500, Jh Audio Pro, Custom Art Pro330v2).  All three CIEMs are sonically superior.  However, all 3 CIEMs are also much more expensive.  For the price paid (Kickstarter pricing) the Flares are great.  What they are not is 'perfect', 'the best' or the second coming of that guy who got nailed up on a cross (I think it was Brian).  Lets not let that hype train drive us all over a cliff.

 
Those kind of comparisons I really would be interested in reading. The only real comparison with top-flight ceims I have read have been with the JH 16 Pro (presumably Freq Phase versions?) in the Headfonics review :
 

 These IEMs shattered and severely outclassed my JH16 and my Merlin customs in stereo imaging, as well as naturalness and realism, but both of those customs have superior treble clarity and luster, both offered more of a musical appeal to the top end.  With that in mind, both of those customs are much more fatiguing and harder to listen to than even the R2A for extended periods of time.  I consider the Flare IEMs natural and smooth, but those customs in the higher tier tend to have more treble than these and in turn the treble tends to be more enjoyable, maybe even more accurate in terms of quantity.

 
For me, I WAS toying with the idea of some Noble K10s but then you get to the position of feeling the need to upgrade DAP and before you know it you've spend the best part of £2.5k on sundries just to feel you're making the most of your money and CEIMS. So quotes like that above stop me in my tracks and make me second think my reasons for wanting the expensive CEIMS.. Is it real sonic reasons or life-style aspiration reasons which ultimately won't be satisfying considering the cash involved (I'm not a high earner by any means).
 
The more direct comparisons with high-end CEIMS the better. Only problem is I'd suspect that some people would have a bias after having spent a lot on CEIMS and so wouldn't be honest to themselves let alone in a review.

 

[LuckyNat]

   
Such is life, some people will welcome these posts, and for others they'll prove less helpful. I think I can live with that.
 
That said, glad I didn't content myself with just trying to adapt, since my methodical approach is yielding results that change my opinion on the R2Pros.
 
 
That's kinda unfortunate, because it looks like I'll have to retract my earlier statement.

 

 
Is definately personal preference. Don't go a changin' !
 
And of course keep experimenting with the Pros.

 

[TwinACStacks]

 
I have heard some not so flattering things about the iem you're talking about ymmv ofc. I almost pulled the trigger on a set but the impressions brought the hype down to earth for me

Are we referring to the same Kickstarter? I've been searching and haven't as yet found a SINGLE negative review on any of the 3 different offerings, in fact they are overwhelmingly positive. Not that I don't doubt there will be, there always is. There are some that absolutely hate the Senn HD600 and 650. Go Figure....
 

TWIN

 

[RedJohn456]

 

Are we referring to the same Kickstarter? I've been searching and haven't as yet found a SINGLE negative review on any of the 3 different offerings, in fact they are overwhelmingly positive. Not that I don't doubt there will be, there always is. There are some that absolutely hate the Senn HD600 and 650. Go Figure....
 

TWIN

Yeah ur talking about the Deltas right? Yeah it was a private conversation via PM, not a post not eh forums. Just saying that what I heard changed my mind about buying it  Just today I read some posts about how the hyperion needed comply to make the treble less piercing for some people, in the labster thread no less. Atleast I think it was there, might have been the Trinity thread. Anyway its not a knock against them, everyone has different tastes but what I heard about the deltas changed my mind about buying them. Will stick with the R2A for the time being. 
 
R2A is good but its not the best I have heard honestly (far from it). On a related note, one of the best I have heard is a pre release iem I have had for the last 2 weeks and its a micro driver as well
Also, my XBA Z5 is pretty good as well, much easier to use than the R2A.

 

[Midgetguy]

 
Yeah ur talking about the Deltas right? Yeah it was a private conversation via PM, not a post not eh forums. Just saying that what I heard changed my mind about buying it  Just today I read some posts about how the hyperion needed comply to make the treble less piercing for some people, in the labster thread no less. Atleast I think it was there, might have been the Trinity thread. Anyway its not a knock against them, everyone has different tastes but what I heard about the deltas changed my mind about buying them. Will stick with the R2A for the time being. 
 
R2A is good but its not the best I have heard honestly (far from it). On a related note, one of the best I have heard is a pre release iem I have had for the last 2 weeks and its a micro driver as well
Also, my XBA Z5 is pretty good as well, much easier to use than the R2A.

You testing out a flagship or mid-tier? Just curious

 

[BucketInABucket]

The best for me has been the Fitear Aya, but that's hella more expensive then the R2Pro!

 

[RedJohn456]

 
You testing out a flagship or mid-tier? Just curious

Flagship for the company but mid tier pricing I guess

 

[Deviltooth]

   
Those kind of comparisons I really would be interested in reading. The only real comparison with top-flight ceims I have read have been with the JH 16 Pro (presumably Freq Phase versions?) in the Headfonics review :
 
 
For me, I WAS toying with the idea of some Noble K10s but then you get to the position of feeling the need to upgrade DAP and before you know it you've spend the best part of £2.5k on sundries just to feel you're making the most of your money and CEIMS. So quotes like that above stop me in my tracks and make me second think my reasons for wanting the expensive CEIMS.. Is it real sonic reasons or life-style aspiration reasons which ultimately won't be satisfying considering the cash involved (I'm not a high earner by any means).
 
The more direct comparisons with high-end CEIMS the better. Only problem is I'd suspect that some people would have a bias after having spent a lot on CEIMS and so wouldn't be honest to themselves let alone in a review.

I could write up a long comparison but before I do I'll throw out this key bit of information: My CT-500s connect me more directly to the emotions of songs that I love.  In other words, when I hear an ethereal vocal I get a chill up my spine... the R2A can't quite do that.  That's no knock on the R2As... so far (for me) only CIEMs have been able to give me the same musical feeling that good speakers can.
 
P.S. I've heard some top flight DAPs and I'm happy to say that (most/all) CIEMs aren't power hungry and while things may improve they don't improve epically.  It's like buying speakers and a receiver/amps/pre-amp et al... with your speakers; the majority of the money should still go to the speakers if you want the best bang for your buck.  With CIEMs that's even more the case as those l'il drivers don't require gobs of power.

 

[Idsynchrono_24]

  P.S. I've heard some top flight DAPs and I'm happy to say that (most/all) CIEMs aren't power hungry and while things may improve they don't improve epically.  It's like buying speakers and a receiver/amps/pre-amp et al... with your speakers; the majority of the money should still go to the speakers if you want the best bang for your buck.  With CIEMs that's even more the case as those l'il drivers don't require gobs of power.

 
I agree completely. I've owned my fair share of well respected DAPs with top shelf chips and some well regarded sources and amps and... honestly? You're getting 90-95% of the performance from just a flippin iPhone. I have NEVER felt compelled to hang onto a DAP which tends to sacrifice battery life, UI, ease of use, for such a tiny iota of performance increase. I honestly doubt that while volume matched, I could reliably tell the difference between any of the sources I previously had and an iPhone in a blind test, and I've owned quite a few so called, "resolving" phones. Always invest your money into phones first, source last.

 

[LuckyNat]

  It's like buying speakers and a receiver/amps/pre-amp et al... with your speakers; the majority of the money should still go to the speakers if you want the best bang for your buck.

 
I'm more a hifi person and have experienced more dramatic changes from changing amps to be honest - and then it's testiment to the speaker that they portray the difference so easily. Sometimes I'm amazed by how well the cheapest, can't even get a £10 for them on ebay, type of speaker can do so well on the end of great amps and source.
 
I don't think that applies with earphones though - they're a different kettle of fish to speakers as so many mini drivers lack ability and often find more advance in upgrading earphones.

 

[Deviltooth]

   
I'm more a hifi person and have experienced more dramatic changes from changing amps to be honest - and then it's testiment to the speaker that they portray the difference so easily. Sometimes I'm amazed by how well the cheapest, can't even get a £10 for them on ebay, type of speaker can do so well on the end of great amps and source.
 
I don't think that applies with earphones though - they're a different kettle of fish to speakers as so many mini drivers lack ability and often find more advance in upgrading earphones.

Speakers are definitely different than C/IEMs.  I can't agree that cheap/poor speakers get much better with a more powerful/better amp.  Poor speakers have their limits and they may improve a little but don't scale up much.  Take great speakers and add the right source and yep, there's an improvement but again I'd rather put the lion's share of my audio bucks into the speakers themselves.
 
P.S. Spend a fortune on 'magical cables' and watch things change not (or barely) at all.

 

[Midgetguy]

 
Flagship for the company but mid tier pricing I guess

Pricing like projected to be $200-400 or like $100-200? Mid-tier can be different prices to different people just like the product itself. I'd personally consider both of those brackets to be mid-tier, borderline upper-tier.