[jasonb]

yea. the falling asleep part may also be blamed on the fact that i listen at night with the lights dimmed very low, while reclining back on my couch with my eyes closed. this way i really get a good feel for the soundstage and imaging. i can practically see the band playing in front of me.
 
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yea, it's not a knock at all.  it's just how they are.  those who love them love that feel.  To this day, I've yet to hear a pair of cans that reproduce love drums the way the HD650's do.  I just prefer to be put in a different mood when I listen to my music.
 
Party on. 

 

[disastermouse]

The E9 is a better amp than the E7 is a DAC. The HRT MSII+ with the E9 surprised me with how good the combo is.

 

[mrspeakers]

The Burson 160D is fabulous with these, and there is no sense of veil whatsoever.  I have also used the modestly priced DACPort with nice results, though there's a noticeable difference in clarity and detail stepping up to the Burson. They do sound "veiled" straight off my ipod, for what that is worth, but so do my JH16s.
 
Regarding cables; total waste of money before you have a good amp, and dubious after you do.  Regardless of your persective on cables they are the very last thing that should be messed with as the price/performance is nowhere near that of going to a decent DAC/Amp.
 
Given that a lot of cables cost MORE than a DACPort or an iBasso D6 (haven't heard it, but it shares much in common with the D4 and D12 (which I own), if money is an issue, start with these most excellent device (it even has a 1/4 jack built in so no adaptor needed).  If you have more $ to apply, seriously check out the Burson, it's a masterfully good fit with the 650.  I keep staying up hours after my bedtime enjoying music, and with the lights out, I'm not falling asleep...

 

[olor1n]

Some of you guys are utter failures when it comes to reading comprehension. I did not advocate the OP spending big bucks on his gear. I simply pointed out that it is unwise to invest so much in a cable when his gear could be upgraded instead. Nowhere did I state that he needed to spend X amount of dollars to get the most out of the HD650. The OP seems hellbent on flushing funds into a cable that may not reveal significant improvements. Why not direct it towards better gear for more apparent results?

 

[GeorgeGoodman]

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^ I don't know about those recommendations. Not because they won't work, but because they void his warranty. At this point, he can probably still send them back. I'd stay away from recommendations that put him in the position to not be able to return or easily resell them.  I'd rather someone try to get the best out of them using conventional means (better amps and dacs) than to start modding something unless they know they want to keep them.  And in that, he has to decide how much he's willing to spend to see if they will sound any better.  My limit was the NuForce Icon HDP.  It gave the 650 a slightly fuller sound (compared to the E7+E9), but it doesn't change the character of the cans.  Nothing can change their character. They ARE smooth.  They ARE laid back.  They ARE sleepy.  If that's not for you, it's not sensible to implore someone to spend $1,000 to make their $300 headphones sound worthwhile. 
 
IMO, of course.
 

Exactly.

 
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Some of you guys are utter failures when it comes to reading comprehension. I did not advocate the OP spending big bucks on his gear. I simply pointed out that it is unwise to invest so much in a cable when his gear could be upgraded instead. Nowhere did I state that he needed to spend X amount of dollars to get the most out of the HD650. The OP seems hellbent on flushing funds into a cable that may not reveal significant improvements. Why not direct it towards better gear for more apparent results?

Better gear will almost always give you better results than a better cable, unless you have already spent thousands. However, if the OP gets the E9 and still does not like the phones' character, then I would go with another phone. Maybe a silver cable would wake it up for him, but he is looking at $100 minimum, if not 300 or 400. Something with EQ might work too.
 

 

[ACDOAN]

I would suggest the Silver Streak from Kimber from source to pre or from source HP amp.  This will open up the soundstage and cut down some of the veil signature sound of the Senn. Silver Streak =  wide sound stage and smooth high.
 
The difference between the Silver Streak and the PBJ is the latter gives more sizzling top end that could be harsh for some bright recording. The Silver Streak is criticized for being bass-shy do if you are a head-banger type of  AC/DC fans,  they are not for you.
 
The Hero is my favourite cables if you need to tame dowm the bright /harsh gear . Its sound signature is huge  mid-range and a little over emphasize on low frequency. The Hero would do a better job for taming bright gear than the Truth Link form Harmonic Tech which is one of my favourite cables for smooth and warm sound.
 
I wonder why KimberKables did not come out with the replacement cables for the Senn600/  650 or the AKG 240/701/702.  Since I believe with my past so many moons toying around with cables, the PBJ and as a step up, the Silver Streak would be a perfect match for the Senn veil signature.  For the AKG, nothing better than the Hero.  Kimber kables folks, I hope you hear me and hear me well .    . 

 

[tlniec]

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As for using the E7/E9 DAC-Amp combo, as much as these are bang for the buck, just one consideration: they don't allow much expansion. Meaning the the E9 has only a 3.5mm input and USB input for the docked E7. It's not really a deal-breaker, but more info couldn't hurt.  

Good point -- though I have heard talk about Fiio having a product called "E17" in development.  From what I understand, it'll be designed to dock into the E9, and provide DAC performance superior to the E7 (though the only specifications mentioned so far have been sample rate and bit depth).  If it comes to fruition, and presents a substantial improvement, that'll be great!  Even if this comes to pass, that doesn't change the fact that the E9 is really optimized to play nicely with other Fiio products.
 

 

[holland]

Quote:

Better gear will almost always give you better results than a better cable, unless you have already spent thousands. However, if the OP gets the E9 and still does not like the phones' character, then I would go with another phone. Maybe a silver cable would wake it up for him, but he is looking at $100 minimum, if not 300 or 400. Something with EQ might work too.
 

+1.  I wouldn't bother with a cable, to be honest.  The characteristic of the headphone is what it is.  There are no drastic changes short of equalization.  There are subtle changes from source, but some of that is due to output level differences.  There are subtle changes from amps.  If you hear the veil and think there is veil, there will always be veil.  Nothing will change that other than the listener acclimating to the sound.

 

[GeorgeGoodman]

Quote:

Quote:

Better gear will almost always give you better results than a better cable, unless you have already spent thousands. However, if the OP gets the E9 and still does not like the phones' character, then I would go with another phone. Maybe a silver cable would wake it up for him, but he is looking at $100 minimum, if not 300 or 400. Something with EQ might work too.
 

+1.  I wouldn't bother with a cable, to be honest.  The characteristic of the headphone is what it is.  There are no drastic changes short of equalization.  There are subtle changes from source, but some of that is due to output level differences.  There are subtle changes from amps.  If you hear the veil and think there is veil, there will always be veil.  Nothing will change that other than the listener acclimating to the sound.

Not exactly. Check this out: http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/503989/review-the-duel-of-the-x-es-the-whiplash-twag-reference-x-cables-for-sennheiser-hd650-hd800 
 
Pay attention to the first few paragraphs.
 
 However, the cable that dramatically is $460, though. Unless you have fairly good gear already with a good 31 band EQ, it doesn't make sense to me to get this cable. 
 
In the final analysis, I think you can get a headphone that you will like in the same price range. You might look at the Ultrasone Pro 750, 900, 2900, and 2500, the Beyerdynamic DT800s and DT990s, Grados, and other headphones that are known for their liveliness.

 

[Yuceka]

I don't think the technicians at Sennheiser were thinking along the same lines as those who think that an amp will absolutely change the veil factor or their laid -backness. When I owned my pair, I used them with different amps (powerful portables, tube and SS) and none of them changed their sound signature. They gave the HD650 different flavors in different genres but amps are not designed (I am ready to be corrected) to change the sound signatures that the headphone manufacturers intended in the first place. Yeah, try different amps but if that veil or "boring" issue is a big one, I'd say move on like I did. I compared my Denons D7000s along with HD650 with same amps with same songs, and decided to part with the HD650 for the same reason you have right now. They are fantastic cans but not my cup of tea at the moment I guess. I almost never like closed cans but my Denons... that's a different story. 
 
Also I agree with one of the posters that HD650 sounds a bit "better?" as you turn the volume up. I've experienced that too. But I decided to stick with keeping my hearing and parting with them than damaging my hearing over time and enjoying HD650 

 

[iancraig10]

Quote:

Also I agree with one of the posters that HD650 sounds a bit "better?" as you turn the volume up. I've experienced that too. But I decided to stick with keeping my hearing and parting with them than damaging my hearing over time and enjoying HD650 

I don't think that enough attention is paid to the volume that the headphones are listened at. That's why I said it.
 
At a higher volume, both ends of the audio spectrum (as most of us know) appear in glorious technicolour. At work, I wear headphones for a great deal of the day as part of my job and they would be regarded by many here as 'veiled' or 'fat'. (The Beyer DT150) However, turn them up and they positively bloom.
 
The same happens with the Sennheiser HD650 imo. They are not fatiguing at all and once you get the bass to 'focus', you get a wonderful slam and there is in fact lots of detail up top without that in yer face sound of many other headphones which for me, work better at lower volumes.
 
If your amp isn't up to delivering enough welly to deliver a 'focused' bass, then it will just sound compressed and I suspect ......... veiled!!
 
I think the op was saying that it was coming from a soundcard. Enough said.

 

[amham]

Many have said and it is a truism...
 
A cable will not change the nature of a headphone no matter how much you spend.  DO NOT throw money in this direction!  The Senn 650 has a signature that can be subtly changed but it is what it is.
Experiment with amps, this will make a difference, they can always be sold, generally at a reasonable loss.  Move on to a different headphone if you do not achieve the results you seek.  Use different amps with different headphones to achieve the sound signature you desire.  Money does not always guarantee results.  Read the impressions within Head-Fi and you will generally be led in the right direction...this is what I have found and am pleased with the results. 
 
This did not need to be restated but it is reality.

 

[amham]

I'll through in two more cents...
 
If you want to hear the Senn 650's at their absolute best, among other options, listen through a Benchmark DAC (USB or other models).  I guarantee the "veil" will be lessened to vanishing.  Use the internal headphone amp, or if you prefer tubes, use an inexpensive Little Dot IVSE.  These options prove the 650's can sing!  

 

[pp312]

Generally agree with this. I personally do not hear a great difference between amps (no, let's be honest, I don't hear any difference). In fact I heard more difference going to an aftermarket cable, which I know undercuts what Amham has to say but there you go, that's Head-Fi for you. Some people are sensitive to amp differences, other not at all, so it's not a cut-and-dried thing.
 
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I don't think the technicians at Sennheiser were thinking along the same lines as those who think that an amp will absolutely change the veil factor or their laid -backness. When I owned my pair, I used them with different amps (powerful portables, tube and SS) and none of them changed their sound signature. They gave the HD650 different flavors in different genres but amps are not designed (I am ready to be corrected) to change the sound signatures that the headphone manufacturers intended in the first place.