[AliveNoMore]

 
Actually you came into the thread earlier saying you were somewhat pissed and as far as I can tell that was your attitude and what has driven your ranting about what this little $55 every guys DAP does not offer. Criticism is fine as long as it's not driven by angst, I'm not assuming anything about you but just observing how I've read your post. You think using lines like our little utopia are positive to getting your answer? Just saying one should read back what they've written before letting it fly and realize you may be trying to agitate vs. criticize and bring good JuJu to what you want

You said you can't even get all these bells and whistles on TOTL DAP's and that is where the $3500 came from. The more the better but for $55 I would never expect the world nor the more the better

I'm just thinking for someone looking to FiiO as someone they are interested in buying from your response is not of a nurturing nature but you be you and I'll be me and if we don't agree it's all good

Cheers

 

I wasn't pissed that the M3 or the X series lack ReplayGain or gapless playback. I was (and still am) annoyed and disappointed. I was pissed at the indecisiveness and lies that FiiO representatives are spreading. By lies I mean the implication that it's the hardware that's limiting them and they are not sure if they can work around that.

I mean, okay, it seems they don't want to implement the feature but why lie. It's so disrespectful. Just come out and say it: "we don't want to do it" or "we're too lazy to bother" or any actual honest reason they may have.
 
I used the word utopia because I sensed a lot of hostility on the user's post. I felt he wanted me to stop talking about it because he didn't want me to say negative things about something he likes. As I said earlier, the thread is not just about features that the M3 has. Heck, virtually no one has the device so we don't know what features it really does have.
 
I never mentioned TOTL DAP. I said "premium priced". I thought it was clear I was referring to FiiO's X series (and especially X3 and X5). To me their prices are premium. I consider 3K USD... the word "insanity" comes to mind. I don't know. Maybe it's because of where I live and that I don't have as much money to spend on things.
 
And while my posts could deter some people, there could be numerous other posts praising the product so any user looking for opinions could just as easily brush off my posts as by some "disgruntled audio person" or something like that.
 
Also, I feel the need to point out that the M3 doesn't cost $55 where I live. It costs 85 Euro which is roughly 90 USD according the Google currency converter. I consider the discrepancy to be rather significant. Whether this (my) price warrants the expectation of the availability of features like ReplayGain I guess is still subjective. For me at least it does. 

 

[Podster]

"I used the word utopia because I sensed a lot of hostility on the user's post. I felt he wanted me to stop talking about it because he didn't want me to say negative things about something he likes. As I said earlier, the thread is not just about features that the M3 has. Heck, virtually no one has the device so we don't know what features it really does have."
 
That person happens to be highly regarded in this forum as a major contributor (pretty sure it says that by his avatar) and yes he has evaluated this device and I may be mistaken but I think he is about to release his review. He's been a little under the weather of late! He has never been hostile to my knowledge I mean that's what we other utopian's are for

 
I'm truly sorry for your price plight on the Euro but with that said are all DAP's not higher there? Once again I have no problem with your voicing what you like it's just how you go about it. By the way I don't think you are some disgruntled audio person, one that is just passionate about what he likes

 

 

[AliveNoMore]

 
That person happens to be highly regarded in this forum as a major contributor (pretty sure it says that by his avatar) and yes he has evaluated this device and I may be mistaken but I think he is about to release his review. He's been a little under the weather of late! He has never been hostile to my knowledge I mean that's what we other utopian's are for

 
I'm truly sorry for your price plight on the Euro but with that said are all DAP's not higher there? Once again I have no problem with your voicing what you like it's just how you go about it. By the way I don't think you are some disgruntled audio person, one that is just passionate about what he likes

 

I'm not arguing him being highly regarded or a contributor. However, status should not make one immune to criticism and/or not provide a free pass for rudeness. And got that from his post, at least how I felt it.
 
Not all DAPs are more expensive. Some are, others are not. Technically I can order from foreign online stores like Amazon and eBay but the European ones. Sometimes they have better deals than local retailers. As far as the M3 is concerned, currently there are no better deals.
If you know a cheaper store, especially in Europe, I'm all ears.

 

[Cagin]

I'm not arguing him being highly regarded or a contributor. However, status should not make one immune to criticism and/or not provide a free pass for rudeness. And got that from his post, at least how I felt it.

Not all DAPs are more expensive. Some are, others are not. Technically I can order from foreign online stores like Amazon and eBay but the European ones. Sometimes they have better deals than local retailers. As far as the M3 is concerned, currently there are no better deals.
If you know a cheaper store, especially in Europe, I'm all ears.

have you tried zococity.es , wifimedia.eu. or Audiogarden.fr ?

 

[BruceBanner]

Posters have the right to highlight the failings of a DAP as well as praise the positives. It's like a review, I like to hear/read the bad stuff as well as the good stuff! Example; right now i'm researching a small table tripod for my dslr (going on holiday soon and want something compact). I enjoy reading what the best reviewer has to say about the product (5/5 ratings etc) and also the worst reviewer (2/5), they both give me an overall picture of what the product will be like.
This is not a advertisement for how great the Fiio M3 is. It's fair to talk and mention points where it doesn't meet the users expectations as well as where it does. This is what makes threads good.

 

[AliveNoMore]

have you tried zococity.es , wifimedia.eu. or Audiogarden.fr ?

No, I haven't. I don't really need to at the moment (due to reasons discussed in this thread) but I will bookmark the stores for future reference. Thank you.

 

[Brooko]

  I'm not arguing him being highly regarded or a contributor. However, status should not make one immune to criticism and/or not provide a free pass for rudeness. And got that from his post, at least how I felt it.

 
And that is you reading something into that simply isn't there.  I'd suggest you go back and read my post again - this time in a calm and measured tone, and see if it makes more sense.
 
I made no comments that could be taken as a direct swipe at you - I was just pointing out that you'd made your point (several times), and now would be the time to accept the point had been made, and move on.  Continually stating the same thing over and over gets tiring.  We've also seen this in some of the X series threads.
 
Finally - you seem to have (at least it appears that way to me) a bit of a personal vendetta toward Fiio:
 

I was pissed at the indecisiveness and lies that FiiO representatives are spreading. By lies I mean the implication that it's the hardware that's limiting them and they are not sure if they can work around that.

I mean, okay, it seems they don't want to implement the feature but why lie. It's so disrespectful. Just come out and say it: "we don't want to do it" or "we're too lazy to bother" or any actual honest reason they may have.

 
Those are pretty strong words given that:

1. By self admittance you don't own any Fiio product yet, so you have no direct experience with any of them
2. You may not be aware (being a relatively new member) of the interaction Fiio has had with this community over the last 3 years, and the degree to which they have included us in the evolution of their products
3. I have had a lot of direct contact with Fiio's reps and Management, and I can assure you that if they are saying that it is not an easy fix to implement replay gain within the boundaries of the software/hardware SOC - then they are not trying to deceive, or avoid, they are simply stating how it is.  All of their SOC's are closed, and as much as I'd like to see advancement (eg Rockbox), I still recognise for devices like the X3ii (for example) the feature vs price is heavily slanted toward being a very good value option. If you don't see this, then take your money elsewhere.

 
To be honest - when I read that section above - my immediate thought was to report your post - simply because making that sort of unfounded direct attack on anyone on the forums is definitely against the TOS.  So my personal advice (which you can freely ignore) is to perhaps modify your tone a little, and realise that there are some limitations.  Fiio usually come through in the end - library sorting and search function on the X5ii are good examples.  But if replay-gain or other features are must haves - then do what most people do:

1. Mention it - which you have done
2. Look for another player with the features required or
3. Use other means to accommodate until a fix appears (eg modify your files)

 
All I'll say is good luck finding a player with the SQ and features that the M3 does have, especially at the price point it is listed at.
 
Oh - and just as an aside - I often (with the M3) simply shuffle my entire collection (I think I have around 100 or so FLAC albums on it) - listening with IEMs.  For me personally, I don't have issues with large changes of volume.  But if I did, for those particular albums, my preference would be simply to permanently change their volume levels.  Easy to do, and a permanent fix that I'd no longer have to worry about

 

[AliveNoMore]

I do not have personal vendetta against anyone. I just have low tolerance level for lies and nonsense in general. In this case I feel like I'm being lied to or that issues are being ignored and users are fed some generic response to pacify them till the next time. I could be wrong of course but this is how it feels thus far. And I would be happy if I am wrong because, as I mentioned before, I actually want a FiiO product.
 
Just because I have registered recently does not mean I haven't read (many) threads and posts on this forum long before I made my account.
 
I'm sorry but there is no way I can believe that ReplayGain is such a difficult feature to implement. Period.
 
I would take my money elsewhere if there was anywhere to take them. And there is a reason why I posted here and still do: because I have done some research and deliberation and have decided that I would prefer to give my money to FiiO. It's a good thing you are not a FiiO representative because your attitude does not leave a good impression at all.
 
No need to be smirky. I know M3 offers good hardware and sound quality for its price. I never claimed or argued otherwise. Quite the contrary, I assumed and guessed it would be quite good and an upgrade to my current DAPs.
 
You say FiiO comes through in the end. This sounds great. I actually would purchase an M3 or X1 (cannot afford anything superior, nor do I think I need it personally) if I know that ReplayGain would come in a reasonable time frame after I have acquired my device. I mean, if I get a FiiO X1 and ReplayGain comes 3 years after it would be too little too late. The problem is that FiiO has (supposedly) added the feature on its ToDo list almost a year ago. Zero progress or information about this does not inspire confidence that it will be done any time soon or at all.
In other words: I will need a bit more evidence that it'll happen before I can commit. And I want to!
 
As for the reporting part, do what you feel you must. It is your right and privilege, even though I don't consider what I wrote to be anywhere near a personal attack or slander, they were random and exaggerated examples off the top of my head.
Anyway, I'm sure I'll get some kind of punishment or reprimand since you have a reputation and I'm a nobody.

 

[Brooko]

As far as this forum is concerned - we're equals.  The difference is that I've been here a bit longer, and contributed a bit more, but if you stick around, I'd love to see you one day get to Contributor status.  Ultimately its the variety of different contributions that make this a great place.  I didn't report you - but wouldn't hesitate if you did carry on the current very aggressive postings.  Take a breath.  It's a DAP, it's not a life changing device.
 
My honest opinion - if replay-gain is an absolute deal breaker - do what I suggested in the previous post.  Either:
[a] Look for another DAP
Change the volume in your worst files
 
I mean who's real fault is it - Fiio's or the dumb person during final mastering who decided that the volume had to be ramped up so much (usually at the cost of dynamic range) in order to make it sound better [shakes head].
 
And I really mean make the choice - like you said, Fiio haven't been able to implement yet on their X series despite it being a reasonably popular request.  Now do you really think that they haven't implemented because they are deliberately trying to deceive us, or arrogantly pushing it to the back of the queue - or do you think that just possibly they have limitations with the SOC and their own engineers where it's not the easiest of tasks to implement?  Which makes more logical sense?  And if you have read a lot of the threads and seen the efforts Fiio have made - there is only one answer to that question 

 
I'm hoping to have my M3 review completed by the weekend, and then I'm not sure how long Lieven will take to post it on Headfonia.  I have to post it over there as Fiio supplied the M3 through them.  I'll try and post some pics of the UI in here anyway - so hopefully it'll help your buying decision.  The UI is definitely quirky - but if you have the patience to get used to it, the M3 is a fine DAP. If you have any specific questions that need some one-on-one help, drop me a PM and I'll see what I can do.

 

[BartSimpson1976]

  Posters have the right to highlight the failings of a DAP

Not everybody sees it in that way. In the QP1R thread I have been called a troll and a racist because I dared to mention a few shortcomings on the UI...

 

[fish1050]

  I do not have personal vendetta against anyone. I just have low tolerance level for lies and nonsense in general. In this case I feel like I'm being lied to or that issues are being ignored and users are fed some generic response to pacify them till the next time. I could be wrong of course but this is how it feels thus far. And I would be happy if I am wrong because, as I mentioned before, I actually want a FiiO product.
 
Just because I have registered recently does not mean I haven't read (many) threads and posts on this forum long before I made my account.
 
I'm sorry but there is no way I can believe that ReplayGain is such a difficult feature to implement. Period.
 
I would take my money elsewhere if there was anywhere to take them. And there is a reason why I posted here and still do: because I have done some research and deliberation and have decided that I would prefer to give my money to FiiO. It's a good thing you are not a FiiO representative because your attitude does not leave a good impression at all.
 
No need to be smirky. I know M3 offers good hardware and sound quality for its price. I never claimed or argued otherwise. Quite the contrary, I assumed and guessed it would be quite good and an upgrade to my current DAPs.
 
You say FiiO comes through in the end. This sounds great. I actually would purchase an M3 or X1 (cannot afford anything superior, nor do I think I need it personally) if I know that ReplayGain would come in a reasonable time frame after I have acquired my device. I mean, if I get a FiiO X1 and ReplayGain comes 3 years after it would be too little too late. The problem is that FiiO has (supposedly) added the feature on its ToDo list almost a year ago. Zero progress or information about this does not inspire confidence that it will be done any time soon or at all.
In other words: I will need a bit more evidence that it'll happen before I can commit. And I want to!
 
As for the reporting part, do what you feel you must. It is your right and privilege, even though I don't consider what I wrote to be anywhere near a personal attack or slander, they were random and exaggerated examples off the top of my head.
Anyway, I'm sure I'll get some kind of punishment or reprimand since you have a reputation and I'm a nobody.

Okey everyone take it down a notch,
 
You have a right to express your opinion,  but instead of voicing your displeasure in a forum for a $55 DAP perhaps you could direct it into a more appropriate forum for say a much more expensive DAP that lacks these features.  Fiio has never attempted a DAP at this price point before,  I am sure they had hopes of being able to provide some of these features but budget constraints including R&D may have prevented it.  Don't assume Fiio is deliberately lying to you.
 
A DAP with a suggested retail price of $55.00 probably has a manufactured cost of like $20 or less.  This would severely limit what they can and can't do with this DAP.  Also they have R&D invested in other higher end products and can only spend so much time and money developing such an inexpensive DAP.  Cheaper components have greater limits on what features they can and can't support.  Cut them some slack and let them get their feet wet in the low cost DAP market.  If the M3 sells really well then maybe they can look to add some of these features later and put more resources behind it.
 
Sansa's been making DAP's at this price point for a long time and trust me their first players weren't all that great. 
 
Also, I seem to recall Fiio talking about an M5 DAP also for less than $100 retail.  If they packed everything into the M3 what would be left for the M5?  If the M3 isn't going to cut it for you then maybe wait until next year and see what the M5 has to offer!
 
I have interest in the M3 as an on the go unit but if Fiio is truly planning to release a slightly higher end model like the M5 I will consider waiting.  Fiio will be able to apply what they learned from making the M3 and put that into a higher end model.  Sounds like a win win to me

 

[rawrster]

@Brooko would you say that from sound alone the X1 is worth the additional cost over the M3? I got the X1 really cheap so the cost difference that normally would apply doesn't matter for me (actually the M3 will be more expensive but I digress). I would probably be using my SE846 or DN-2000J if that makes a difference. I was hoping that the M3 would be released before my vacation next week since it has a good battery but that doesn't look like it is happening. I bought an iphone recently and will have to use that along with a battery pack while on the plane.
 
I should really get around to using the X1. I've had it for 2 weeks or so and barely touched it. Once my new phones comes I can use the micro sd card in my current phone and switch it into the X1 to see what the dap is capable of..

 

[BruceBanner]

Where i differ is that I think all DAPs suck lmao. I'm not targeting any manufacturer specifically, more that I am amazed that in 2015 we are akin to having 'tv's with no remotes'.

And i think we're our own worst enemy. "Oh the sound... the sound is so gOOooood. It's so detailed.... it's sublime..." etc etc. WAY too much fan focus on sound that makes the manufacturers obsess over this that it leaves little for anything else. What I have learned is that the term 'sound quality' is well and truly overrated. Sound is in the ear of the beholder. I can open my DAP drawer and be satisfied with 3 or more different devices that all sound good, what separates them is the feature set.

Find any headfi thread. 100 pages of sound quality and pairing chit chat, 10% talking about features, bring up features and u get shot down lol.

That's why ABI can be a breath of fresh air, they (that community) seem to be more feature focused and willing to discuss in greater lengths and depths (without offense).

 

[fish1050]

  @Brooko would you say that from sound alone the X1 is worth the additional cost over the M3? I got the X1 really cheap so the cost difference that normally would apply doesn't matter for me (actually the M3 will be more expensive but I digress). I would probably be using my SE846 or DN-2000J if that makes a difference. I was hoping that the M3 would be released before my vacation next week since it has a good battery but that doesn't look like it is happening. I bought an iphone recently and will have to use that along with a battery pack while on the plane.
 
I should really get around to using the X1. I've had it for 2 weeks or so and barely touched it. Once my new phones comes I can use the micro sd card in my current phone and switch it into the X1 to see what the dap is capable of..

I have to wonder if Fiio is planning on bringing out another sub $100.00 DAP in the M5 if that might mean the X1 will get phased out. If you think about it Fiio chose to bring out the M3 instead of coming out with the X1 II and I haven't heard any mention that they will bring out another X1.  I was surprised that the X1 wasn't made from plastic at a price point of $100.00.  With the M3 Fiio moved to a plastic body and I would guess the M5 would be the same.  A plastic body is obviously cheaper to produce than an aluminum body or metal body.  If Fiio does bring out the M5 they would have 3 units priced at $100.00 or less.  I can't imagine Fiio would continue with all 3 models.  I guess they could come out with a slightly higher quality X1 Series 2 at $150.00.
 
I would love to find out what Fiio has in mind for their future DAP's past the X7 and possible M5.

 

[fish1050]

  Where i differ is that I think all DAPs suck lmao. I'm not targeting any manufacturer specifically, more that I am amazed that in 2015 we are akin to having 'tv's with no remotes'.

And i think we're our own worst enemy. "Oh the sound... the sound is so gOOooood. It's so detailed.... it's sublime..." etc etc. WAY too much fan focus on sound that makes the manufacturers obsess over this that it leaves little for anything else. What I have learned is that the term 'sound quality' is well and truly overrated. Sound is in the ear of the beholder. I can open my DAP drawer and be satisfied with 3 or more different devices that all sound good, what separates them is the feature set.

Find any headfi thread. 100 pages of sound quality and pairing chit chat, 10% talking about features, bring up features and u get shot down lol.

That's why ABI can be a breath of fresh air, they (that community) seem to be more feature focused and willing to discuss in greater lengths and depths (without offense).

Outside of Sony that doesn't put an OPAMP or a DAC chip in their DAP's with their own custom design everyone relies on other manufacturers for the main components.  One company might make the OPAMP and another might make the DAC chip, and another will make the screen etc..  So your ability to make a kick ass DAP is dependent on the capability of the parts the DAP maker sources to put in their DAP.  The focus is typically on getting the parts that offer the best sound reproduction at the desired price point.  The problem also is that OPAMP and DAC chip manufacturers aren't making components geared strictly for DAP's they make them to work in as many different products as possible (ie tablets and smartphones).  So only features common to all these different devices are likely to be supported.
 
We are never going to get a perfect DAP, thus assuming all DAP's are pretty close in sound quality at a given price point.  You can then focus on getting the one that offers the most of the other features you want, at least in an ideal world.