[GoldenSound]

Thank you very much for that info.

I did read the Spec Sheet of Envy and thought they were joking when mentioning an RMS input voltage of 1V.
Why is it so low? Considering Envy has XLR inputs...

What would the setting on Wandla be to reach 1V?

I have Wandla Rev 4.0 with FW 1.4.0 installed, so I can switch between Red Book and Pro Spec via HW.

Acorrding to this article, Euforia (my unit) was measured by Feliks with 1.8V RMS.
https://www.stereophile.com/content/gramophone-dreams-31-feliks-audio-focal-grado-jps-page-2

How can I set Wandla to Output this voltage for use with my Euforia Evo?

Edit:

So is the Calculation as follows?
2V Max via RCA when Wandla is set to Red Book -> 0,02V per Step -> Level 90 should Reach 1.8V RMS correct?

It's not that the envy can't take more than that, it's just that it (and so far all other tube amps or hybrid amps with tube input stages) that I've tested exhibit distortion correlated with input level, regardless of what level is actually being output.

This means that they will change in sound if you use a hot output dac with them vs a lower voltage one.

Here's woo WA23 and Riviera AIC10 for example:

I'd need to double check once home, but there's no exact figure to go for. I'd generally set the DAC to about 90 and you'll be good.

But play about with it. You may find that slightly higher or slightly lower sounds better.

 

[GoldenSound]

I'm currently waiting for my Wandla+Hypsos combo, and I'm planning to pair them with my Trafomatic Head 2 amp. I'm pretty bad at reading the spec sheet so can you give any help as to how I should set the Wandla up with the Head 2 volume control/voltage adjustment wise?

Generally if using Wandla with a tube amp, I'd set voltage output to 'red' mode and then vol control to about 90. But try tweaking the level to see what sounds best with your amp.

With other DACs either use the inbuilt vol control or vol control in your player to apply about 6-10dB vol attenuation

 

[GoldenSound]

Impact+ is most noticeable right away because its basically and EQ change. I thought there is more to this filter than this but sadly it does not seem like it.

Main extra thing to note is that this feature is being done with 64 bit precision rather than 24/32 bit as many normal digital EQs are (some even only do 16 bit). This is to ensure absolutely no change in sound quality other than the actual FR effect itself. Ie: it's the highest possible quality way to make this adjustment. So it's more accurate than doing it in something like Roon or Peace/EQ-APO.

Whether that matters or not can be debated but hey, if we can do something in higher quality why not do it that way?

 

[slsmaster]

It's not that the envy can't take more than that, it's just that it (and so far all other tube amps or hybrid amps with tube input stages) that I've tested exhibit distortion correlated with input level, regardless of what level is actually being output.

This means that they will change in sound if you use a hot output dac with them vs a lower voltage one.

Here's woo WA23 and Riviera AIC10 for example:


I'd need to double check once home, but there's no exact figure to go for. I'd generally set the DAC to about 90 and you'll be good.

But play about with it. You may find that slightly higher or slightly lower sounds better.

Thats some really good advise, thank you for that!

 

[Mimetic]

What Wandla exceeds in vs May is the slam and dynamics, they are great and reminded me of Dave a lot. Thats where you just need to throw HQP in with May, but still I believe Wandla might have a slight edge there. Wandla is a better allrounder in that regard since you dont need to tinker with HQP when you want to get the most out of your more energetic recordings. But I cant think of any other area where I woud pick Wandla over May tbh apart of sparing some space - infact I would pick pretty close to May sounding 2.7k Harmony over very expensive "full" package of GSE + Hypsos variant any day over it

Good to know because May KTE was on my list to try at some point and I feel the Wandla is lacking in bass, slam & dynamics. If May is worse in that regard I can safely strike it from the list. At this point what I'm most interested in as far as GSE Wandla is concerned is the Impact+ feature. They sure are taking their time rolling out the upgrade program though!

 

[krude]

Good to know because May KTE was on my list to try at some point and I feel the Wandla is lacking in bass, slam & dynamics. If May is worse in that regard I can safely strike it from the list. At this point what I'm most interested in as far as GSE Wandla is concerned is the Impact+ feature. They sure are taking their time rolling out the upgrade program though!

Ooof ... you sure its a dac not an amp problem?

Are you using Susvara and Bliss by any chance to make this judgement?

 

[Mimetic]

Ooof ... you sure its a dac not an amp problem?

Are you using Susvara and Bliss by any chance to make this judgement?

Yep using Sus + Bliss but the thing is when I swap to my lowly Cayin iDAC-6 Mk2 (solid state mode) the bass and dynamics are there which leads me to believe the Wandla is lacking something in that dept. The Cayin is notably thicker/fuller sounding with more bass/slam & dynamics, the Wandla is a little thinner sounding. Cayin sounds more wet, Wandla sounds more dry and I gotta be honest I'm getting more enjoyment from the Cayin these days, very underrated DAC imho. Putting it another way, the Cayin gets me bopping my head and tapping my toes, the Wandla does not. I haven't given up on the Wandla yet though, I've heard people say it slams and I've also heard the opposite -- has me sort of scratching my head tbh.

 

[krude]

Yep using Sus + Bliss but the thing is when I swap to my lowly Cayin iDAC-6 Mk2 (solid state mode) the bass and dynamics are there which leads me to believe the Wandla is lacking something in that dept. The Cayin is notably thicker/fuller sounding with more bass/slam & dynamics, the Wandla is a little thinner sounding. Cayin sounds more wet, Wandla sounds more dry and I gotta be honest I'm getting more enjoyment from the Cayin these days, very underrated DAC imho. Putting it another way, the Cayin gets me bopping my head and tapping my toes, the Wandla does not. I haven't given up on the Wandla yet though, I've heard people say it slams and I've also heard the opposite -- has me sort of scratching my head tbh.

Are you running with Hypsos? Using analogue volume, pro mode, experimented with HQ filters? How many hours do you have on the Wandla (and presumably Hypsos)?

Bliss is a very capable amp but its very ... tame ... by design, so you need a sledgehammer of a dac to get dynamics from Susvara from it from my experience.

I had it with May and Susvara and it was sounding anemic for me so I would also look for a more balsy dac if you want to pursue the Sus Bliss pairing and Wandla won't give you enough.

 

[slsmaster]

Yep using Sus + Bliss but the thing is when I swap to my lowly Cayin iDAC-6 Mk2 (solid state mode) the bass and dynamics are there which leads me to believe the Wandla is lacking something in that dept. The Cayin is notably thicker/fuller sounding with more bass/slam & dynamics, the Wandla is a little thinner sounding. Cayin sounds more wet, Wandla sounds more dry and I gotta be honest I'm getting more enjoyment from the Cayin these days, very underrated DAC imho. Putting it another way, the Cayin gets me bopping my head and tapping my toes, the Wandla does not. I haven't given up on the Wandla yet though, I've heard people say it slams and I've also heard the opposite -- has me sort of scratching my head tbh.

I see you are using iFi iPower Elite with Wandla. I am currently using Wandla with stock PSU with an Feliks Euforia and VO Camphor Burl, its definitley not lacking in slam.

But then again, VO has a Berillyum driver which already is very punchy.

Have you tried using the stock power brick? Was it the same with it?

 

[Leto Dal]

Good to know because May KTE was on my list to try at some point and I feel the Wandla is lacking in bass, slam & dynamics. If May is worse in that regard I can safely strike it from the list. At this point what I'm most interested in as far as GSE Wandla is concerned is the Impact+ feature. They sure are taking their time rolling out the upgrade program though!

You might get more slam out of May than Wandla trowing in HQP with a very specific filter on a powerful pc... maybe and you might sacrifice other qualities of May doing sso. If you find Wandla lacking slam (it has a lot imho), the only upgrades I can think off is Chord Dave and Wavedream signature, which are... expensive.

I think the issue is not the dac in your case but the amp. I owned Bliss and sold it couple of months after getting Sus. It will not bring out most of the slam you might want with Susvara, its a rather soft sounding amp that doesnt drive Susvara "fully" (yes yes lol what does). But with something like Envy you will get FAR more slam on Susvara apart of other qualities. If you throw Elrogs into the equation (1.8k tubes) you will get even more slam. Another things you might want to try is Zähl HM1, Red October and ofc Rivera which will elivate your Susvara above most totl on the current market, yet you will want a different DAC with it than Wandla or even May

Susvara is a cursed headphone if you are chasing slam and dynamics, it scales greatly but it comes at a price.

 

[krude]

You might get more slam out of May than Wandla trowing in HQP with a very specific filter on a powerful pc... maybe and you might sacrifice other qualities of May doing os. If you find Wandla lacking slam (it has a lot imho), the only upgrades I can think off is Chord Dave and Wavedream signature, which are... expensive.

I think the issue is not the dac in your case but the amp. Bliss will not bring most of the slam you might want with Susvara, its a rather soft sounding amp that doesnt drive Susvara "fully" (yes yes lol what does). But with something like Envy you will get FAR more slam on Susvara apart of other qualities. Another things you might want to try is Zähl HM1, Red October and ofc Rivera which will elivate your Susvara above most totl on the current market, yet you will want a different DAC with it than Wandla or even May

Susvara is a cursed headphone if you are chasing slam and dynamics, it scales greatly but it comes at a price.

100% my experience. Sold the Sus after 2 years of chasing dynamics

 

[Leto Dal]

100% my experience. Sold the Sus after 2 years of chasing dynamics

Love mine with Envy, yet to find anything that can match it tonality and technicalities aside of 30k Aperio

Though might want a different dac one day, when I grow up and become very rich lol

In all seriousness Munich Highend fair last week was quite an eye opening experience, it became pretty clear that any upgrade in my case (may + envy + sus + a couple zmfs) will come at a very high price and will be rather small. Its wiser just to sidegrade with headphones, sacrificing some things and gaining other. For superb and slam I probably would go with Abyss 1266 TC and Caldera Closed nowdays, or as a cheaper solution an used Utopia v.1. For my slam needs I settle with Atrium Closed which hits like a truck on the right setup and is super fun listen. Other than that 90% of my library Sus on Envy is more than enough slam-wise, but I definitely wouldn't be happy with Bliss for Susvara.

 

[krude]

Love mine with Envy, yet to find anything that can match it tonality and technicalities aside of 30k Aperio

Though might want a different dac one day, when I grow up and become very rich lol

In all seriousness Munich Highend fair last week was quite an eye opening experience, it became pretty clear that any upgrade in my case (may + envy + sus + a couple zmfs) will come at a very high price and will be rather small. Its wiser just to sidegrade with headphones, sacrificing some things and gaining other. For superb and slam I probably would go with Abyss 1266 TC and Caldera Closed nowdays, or as a cheaper solution an used Utopia v.1. For my slam needs I settle with Atrium Closed which hits like a truck on the right setup and is super fun listen. Other than that 90% of my library Sus on Envy is more than enough slam-wise, but I definitely wouldn't be happy with Bliss for Susvara.

TC and Utopia was exactly my solution. Didn't manage to test it with my current stack and I think it might be similar to yours with fully decked out HA300MK2.

 

[Leto Dal]

TC and Utopia was exactly my solution. Didn't manage to test it with my current stack and I think it might be similar to yours with fully decked out HA300MK2.

yeah I think ha-300mk2 is rather similar to Envy, Envy seem to bring bit more solid state technicalities to the table, cayin is bit more tubier with its rectifiers. If slam is what you are going for wandla with those two hps is probably some of the best setups you can get sub 20k.

You might want to give Sus another go with Ha-300b and maybe a r2r dac one day, it was quite an eye opening experience with Envy and WE300b for me.

 

[Mimetic]

Are you running with Hypsos? Using analogue volume, pro mode, experimented with HQ filters? How many hours do you have on the Wandla (and presumably Hypsos)?

Bliss is a very capable amp but its very ... tame ... by design, so you need a sledgehammer of a dac to get dynamics from Susvara from it from my experience.

I had it with May and Susvara and it was sounding anemic for me so I would also look for a more balsy dac if you want to pursue the Sus Bliss pairing and Wandla won't give you enough.

I started with Hypsos and compared with iFi iPower Elite, found no difference so returned the Hypsos and pocketed the (large) difference. I have always been running bypass mode with anywhere from -1dB to -3dB digital trim. After reading your post a few days ago I did try analog volume but couldn't hear a meaningful difference in terms of bass/slam & dynamics. I have tried all the HQ filters of course but the differences between them are very small, none of them can bring out more/less bass/slam & dynamics, usually just small differences in treble presentation. As for hours, somewhere between 50-100hrs I'd wager.

I see you are using iFi iPower Elite with Wandla. I am currently using Wandla with stock PSU with an Feliks Euforia and VO Camphor Burl, its definitley not lacking in slam.

But then again, VO has a Berillyum driver which already is very punchy.

Have you tried using the stock power brick? Was it the same with it?

I have never tried the stock power brick. I bought the Wandla with Hypsos then tried the iFi iPower Elite after experiencing some non-sq-related issues from the Hypsos. I found the iFi performed equally as well as the Hypsos so kept the iFi as mentioned above.

You might get more slam out of May than Wandla trowing in HQP with a very specific filter on a powerful pc... maybe and you might sacrifice other qualities of May doing sso. If you find Wandla lacking slam (it has a lot imho), the only upgrades I can think off is Chord Dave and Wavedream signature, which are... expensive.

I think the issue is not the dac in your case but the amp. I owned Bliss and sold it couple of months after getting Sus. It will not bring out most of the slam you might want with Susvara, its a rather soft sounding amp that doesnt drive Susvara "fully" (yes yes lol what does). But with something like Envy you will get FAR more slam on Susvara apart of other qualities. If you throw Elrogs into the equation (1.8k tubes) you will get even more slam. Another things you might want to try is Zähl HM1, Red October and ofc Rivera which will elivate your Susvara above most totl on the current market, yet you will want a different DAC with it than Wandla or even May

Susvara is a cursed headphone if you are chasing slam and dynamics, it scales greatly but it comes at a price.

Wavedream Sig XLR has always been my final destination and I am currently working toward that, with a few planned pit-stops along the way (one of which was going to be the May). Interesting that you mention the Chord DAVE, I will have to add that to my list. I do notice that it is capable of big output voltage which is important to me if still using the Bliss. I'll probably just end up keeping the lowly Cayin DAC and continue along the road toward the Wavedream.

I would love to try an HM1 or Riviera but I have no interest in paying full retail for those and they are extremely rare on the used market so unfortunately will probably never be able to try them. At that point in terms of financial expenditure I think I'd rather get back into a 2ch loudspeaker setup and dedicate the funds to that, I'd get much more for my money that way. I do regret selling my system years ago, I miss it dearly and no headphone rig I've ever heard can compare to what I had back then.

The thought of ditching Susvara has definitely crossed my mind and I did know it was a potential road-to-nowhere when I bought them due to everyone saying it's a never-ending carousel of chasing a chain that can do them justice. Maybe a pair of Caldera or something else is in my future, who knows. Just trying to enjoy the journey!