[UntilThen]

UT why do we have the exact same headphones? I have T1, HD800, and HD650 as well

Got great deals on both HD650 and HD800. 150$ for the HD650 and 390$ for the HD800

Really?

How do you like the Hd800 and 650?

I love the hd800 so much I sleep with it every night....

 

[UntilThen]

Just got a great deal on a pair of Gold Aero 6sn7GT's , Member was asking for them to be identified, some said China, Member then offered them for $10 shipping and Paypal included, I jumped on them, I am pretty sure they are made by RCA like my 5998A's

Hey that is imitation brown base.

Just kidding. Not everything that comes out of China is bad....

How does that combo sound?

 

[UntilThen]

I don,'t like KFC either.

I heard NU 7n7 are quite good. I wanna to giveita try because I like NU 6sn7gt smoke glass.

Yeah sure go for it.

 

[UntilThen]

Hi h1,

Personally I am not convinced that the internal temperature of the amp is a good barometer on how safe it is is to use certain tubes. My guess is that the auto biasing circuit could get overworked and lead to failure of certain circuits under certain conditions (not necessary EL tubes). I stress that I am only guessing.

A profound statement indeed. Mordy kind of nail it.

Don't get me wrong. I didn't say the non recommended tubes didn't sound good. They are ... I tried them.

However, and this is a big however.... if the manufacturer doesn't approve of it and if it would void any warranty repairs, then I won't touch the forbidden fruits. Hope I make myself clear here.

I did not change my mind about the sonics of EL3N and EL11 / 12. They are great sounding tubes. Even Glenn agree or he wouldn't make a customised GEL3N with the best transformers. However as any newbie will know., it's not the tube themselves but the amps's implementation of it.

Granted Elise 'works' with many of these non recommended tubes and sound good !!! but as Lukasz said.... 'in the long run, the amps will suffer'.

 

[hypnos1]

OK folks...time for a more balanced perspective on the use of the EL family of tubes in our amps, based upon a closer inspection of facts!

But firstly, I appreciate your position on this @UntilThen, and that of F-A, and applaud the recommendations to stay within the configured-for tube combinations. This is indeed the safest option for those who do not wish to 'stray' from that path, and I certainly do not expect/want anyone to take any unnecessary risks with either their Elise or Euforia.

But by the same token, I cannot see a great deal of time, effort and money totally negated without due consideration for all sides of this argument. And so in order to try and regain some kind of balance, I proffer my own stance, based upon what I regard as fairly solid facts that perhaps need stating/repeating...

As I see it, there are two distinct, and separate, topics that are most relevant here - firstly, the safety of running these tubes, in light of recently stated overheating issues (and which I have always proposed was not due to the use of EL tubes; and secondly, their actual performance in real terms and different setups, as opposed to their not being specifically configured for our amps.

First...no-one questions the heat aspect that amps are designed for as part of the specification, and some can indeed tolerate higher running temperatures than others. Plus, the fact of running the circuitry at lower than usual temperatures is obviously no indicator of overall better performance/sound...that is not the issue here. What my aim was in testing the 11/12 running temps was purely to ensure that in no way could they be blamed for "frying" any of the circuits... with incontrovertible evidence based upon extensive measurement of the entire internals...to wit...every single resistor, capacitor and section of the circuit boards ran 8 to 10deg C lower with the ELs, compared to the 6SN7/6AS7G combo. The section immediately below the transformer ran over 25deg C hotter with the standard tubes. Both tests were carried out over 5hrs+ continuous running of each combo at high listening levels, at an ambient temperature of 23deg C.

This would indicate to me, at least, that we do not have any worries on this score lol!

Second...regarding F-A's "surprise" at folks actually liking the sound of these tubes, I think the fact that a good many did (and probably still do, despite not repeating their own comments here ) possibly indicates that F-A simply didn't have sufficient time to trial them fully, given their extremely busy schedule at the time...especially as these tubes do need a lengthy period to "settle in" before performing anywhere near their best. Plus, they only tested the EL11 drivers, and therefore paired them with 6AS7G powers, not EL12s. I personally have found the 11s are MUCH happier driving the 12s, and then deliver a much better overall performance.

I myself have been running EL tubes continuously in Elise, and now Euforia, for a very long time - longer than anyone else I imagine - and without the slightest hint of trouble whatsoever. Of course, this is no cast iron guarantee there will never be any problems, but this is also true of ALL tubes and amp circuits. And as overheating of the latter by these tubes can probably now be fairly safely ruled out (and which appears to be the main, insidious tube-related cause of failure), any hint of the amp not being "happy" with them would surely become noticeable to the trained ear...and my own amp is more than happy with them - all the more so since my recent upgrades to the system!.... Further info on my own findings compared to ECC31/GEC CV2523 - mirrored by my Sylvania "Chrome Dome" 7N7 + NU 6SN7 driver combo - are in my recent post over at the Euforia thread.

Hopefully this gives a bit clearer/more balanced view for folks still interested in these 'alternative' tubes...probably the least 'risky' of pretty well any other such tubes we have experimented with these past years...so long as one isn't unlucky with the tubes in the first place, being somewhat more unreliable than your average old tube! Which is why one needs to be as sure as possible of easy returns if they should prove faulty!!

I repeat my joy at seeing so many folks really happy with the recommended tubes, and at how F-A have managed to bring out the best in them...both here in Elise land, and now in Euforia. They have indeed worked wonders...and all that remains for me myself is to see just how much further my amp can go with the Hugo 2 DAC/Amp in place....when it arrives, lol!!!....CHEERS!...

 

[UntilThen]

A profound statement indeed. Mordy kind of nail it.

Don't get me wrong. I didn't say the non recommended tubes didn't sound good. They are ... I tried them.

However, and this is a big however.... if the manufacturer doesn't approve of it and if it would void any warranty repairs, then I won't touch the forbidden fruits. Hope I make myself clear here.

I did not change my mind about the sonics of EL3N and EL11 / 12. They are great sounding tubes. Even Glenn agree or he wouldn't make a customised GEL3N with the best transformers. However as any newbie will know., it's not the tube themselves but the amps's implementation of it.

Granted Elise 'works' with many of these non recommended tubes and sound good !!! but as Lukasz said.... 'in the long run, the amps will suffer'.

I want to expand on this to state my position clearly. So please read it because I've included many extra statements.

 

[connieflyer]

Hey that is imitation brown base.
These tubes are sounding very good, only about an hour burn in on the 6sn7GT's but they do sound similar to the RCA silver label gt's I have from 1948, not quite as warm, but that could be the 5998A's also. Funny as soon as the "experts" proclaimed looks Chinese to me, then they all saw the similarity except one guy that said maybe Mullard! The former owner could not believe no one jumped on the sale, but since "everyone" thought maybe cheap tubes no one took a chance even at $10 complete. Nutz. We exchanged emails a bit and could not understand it. Others may have wanted to try them but did not want to be looked down on from the "experts", so they lost, I won.

Just kidding. Not everything that comes out of China is bad....

How does that combo sound?

 

[hypnos1]

Hi h1,

Personally I am not convinced that the internal temperature of the amp is a good barometer on how safe it is is to use certain tubes. My guess is that the auto biasing circuit could get overworked and lead to failure of certain circuits under certain conditions (not necessary EL tubes). I stress that I am only guessing.

Hi m...you might possibly have a point there, but from my understanding, there would be fairly obvious signs that tube and amp are not functioning well together, and indicate need for caution.
Also, I'm quite sure that F-A would have pointed this out to me after their own trial, if it were to be such a potential hazard...even if in the long term - especially as I informed Lukasz of my temperature testing.

And given that most of the problems encountered have indeed been due to overheating issues, I think that is indeed therefore the most likely indicator, although not the only one, of course.

I fear conclusions are being drawn on pure conjecture rather than extended probabilities even lol!!...(but at least you yourself qualify your statement as guessing...and of course my own statements are as an amateur, but with a certain justification, I feel....and with just a tad of comfort from Lukasz's confirmation that they themselves at least couldn't state any particular danger in using the EL tubes - just that the readings were "all over the place"...and which I'm sure could well have settled down if they'd been able to spend more time with them...especially if they had paired them with EL12 powers lol!).

 

[UntilThen]

At the end of the day, it doesnt matter what we think. Lukasz told me that warranty will be void if you consistently roll with non recommended tubes.

This will matter to those who depend on the 3 years warranty.

Any manufacturer will tell you that.

 

[UntilThen]

What I dont understand is why we didnt push for EL tube amp when proposing the idea of an upgraded Elise. Instead we end up with Euforia which is a very refined 6sn7 and 6as7 OTL tube amp.

Now round about that time I actually brought up to Lukasz about doing a dedicated EL3N. He mentioned that it might be considered in future projects.

So given a 2nd chance, we still get a 6sn7 and 6as7 tube amp.... and we still continue to roll with EL11 and EL12 in Euforia and maintain that its the best.

Really makes no sense to me.

Believe me if we did get a dedicated EL11 / 12 amp, the folks here will move on to other exotic tubes.

 

[Wreckgar7]

All I can say in this is i really like the RFT EL11 as drivers paired with either TS5998 or GEC 6as7, although the only 6SN7 tubes i own are stock drivers and Sylvania 6SN7GTA.
So i can definitely recommend the EL11, BUT all need to be aware that its on their own risk.
On other matters, im interested in buying either Sylvania 6sn7wgt or 6sn7W. Can someone describe the difference in them? Maby even compare them to EL11?

 

[UntilThen]

So i can definitely recommend the EL11, BUT all need to be aware that its on their own risk.

The first part of the sentence is tricky. You cannot in all honesty say that you can definitely recommend the EL11, knowing full well that Feliks Audio doesn't endorsed it and will not honour any warranty claims arising from defects if they know you are using EL11 / EL12.

Even though you try to let the general public know with the second part of the sentence, BUT all need to be aware that its on their own risk, all they will see is the first part of the sentence.

 

[UntilThen]

I think the general public here wish to ignore this statement from Lukasz to me. If this is not clear as mud, I don't know what is. There is no justification to interpret this any other way. What is it that you do not understand about this statement from Feliks Audio's spokeman? Perhaps we know better than him or Feliks Audio?

On EL11/12, these are completely out of spec in Elise/Euforia. We are a bit puzzled why people consider them "better" than good 6sn7 for example, no clue. Your Elise main circuits were pretty well fried, cannot exclude this was from using other tube types. So probably in most cases the amp will work but it may have impact on length of life and at least technically it shouldnt give any better (rather worse) sonical result.

 

[UntilThen]

I am going to leave this thread now because I will be considered a nuisance for speaking up for Feliks Audio. If that is the case, so be it.

I learn in my time on Head-Fi that there are 2 classifications of people. One who are creative and will experiment and modify or tuberised (if there's such a word). I.e. will experiment with as many varied tubes as possible, even in an amp specifically tuned for 6sn7 and 6as7. Unfortunately, this happen mainly in the Ember and Elise thread. The amount of experimentation on Elise thread is mind boggling.

Go to La Figaro 339 thread. You don't see that happening. They will still use the tubes compliments as design by the manufacturer. Go to Eddie Current thread, same thing. Go to DNA Stratus thread, you will be stretchered out of the thread if you do decide to roll anything other than 2A3 tubes.

 

[Wreckgar7]

Wouldnt want you to leave the thread UT, you contribute so much here.
Regarding the warranty, im fully aware thats out the window when started using these tubes and also i have NO idea how it affects the amp in the long run, but we`ve known this since the EL3N tube, including you right?


I`d love to find a 6sn7 tube that matches the soundqualities of EL11, its just such a faboulous sound im getting with it