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Feliks Audio Elise Impressions Thread – a New Start (please read first post for summary)
Nov 2, 2016 at 9:31 AM Post #3,241 of 11,833
It is starting to get a little old listening to thus hyberbole,. and I am also getting a little tired of this in the thread. It puts people off that may be interested in the Elise, but see all these claims of vastly superior claims by people that don't have the knowledge about the subject or electronics in general and think, they may have to constantly upgrade tube after tube, just to try to keep up.  I have alot of tubes and I can honestly say,  I could be happy with any of the combos.   Some I like more than others, but none leave me with a feeling that I should take them out back and use a shotgun on them because they are so poor.  Elise is a fine amp, delivers a great experience and well worth the investment.  I eagerly await H's opinion of the new additions to the Elise, and will then do some soul searching to decide if the increase in cost would be worth it compared to what I have.  I am certain it will be better, but cost benefit is the name of the game, unless you are well healed or supported by other funding.
 
Nov 2, 2016 at 3:45 PM Post #3,242 of 11,833
My hifi-making dad gave me a lifelong wariness of confirmation bias. My childhood was a succession of blind AB tests and afternoons spent describing the relative loudness of 3rd and 5th octave pink noise tracks. Confirmation bias still tricks me. But I try to not jump to conclusions about any piece of kit or tubes, etc, until I've lived with it for a while. That first switch on is always AMAZING. I think the best thing people can do to avoid hyperbole is just to chill out. Slow down a bit. And get your friends to help you to make your listening tests genuinely blind. It can be a pretty depressing or enlightening experience, depending of which way you are prone to take it.
 
Nov 2, 2016 at 4:44 PM Post #3,244 of 11,833
connieflyer said:
  It is starting to get a little old listening to thus hyberbole,. and I am also getting a little tired of this in the thread. It puts people off that may be interested in the Elise, but see all these claims of vastly superior claims by people that don't have the knowledge about the subject or electronics in general and think, they may have to constantly upgrade tube after tube, just to try to keep up.  I have alot of tubes and I can honestly say,  I could be happy with any of the combos.   Some I like more than others, but none leave me with a feeling that I should take them out back and use a shotgun on them because they are so poor.  Elise is a fine amp, delivers a great experience and well worth the investment.  I eagerly await H's opinion of the new additions to the Elise, and will then do some soul searching to decide if the increase in cost would be worth it compared to what I have.  I am certain it will be better, but cost benefit is the name of the game, unless you are well healed or supported by other funding.
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Fully agree, cf (and @pctazhp)...we need a return to measured, careful, restrained, unexaggerated, realistic assessments lol! Only then can they be taken more seriously by most folks.
 
Fortunately, if those interested parties really want to gain a better picture of what Elise can deliver, there is a wealth of useful info going back a long way - both here and over at the other 2 threads I myself started. I know this involves wading through a good deal of "other" material, but hey, good things are worth taking that extra bit of trouble, no?!
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...I, and others, have spent a great deal of time, effort and money these past 2 years in shedding light on what this amp is capable of delivering - I don't think it is asking too much to sift through it (at leisure!) and thereby gain a clearer, more balanced view of what's on offer...
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...
 
And yes indeed...cost/benefit is going to be mighty tricky re. my new amp - but this is always the case, of course, once you reach a certain level of performance in a product, and at the end of the day can only really come down to one's own particular desires as to just how much further one wishes to go in the pursuit of "better"... given one's finances of course!!
 
I am both excited and apprehensive about assessing the amp - naturally, I want it to be "super-duper", both for myself and F-A, and it will be hard indeed to remain 100% objective...but I shall try my hardest to be so...(especially with reference to richdytch's post below!). Of course any improvement isn't going  to be "mind-blowingly, unbelievably, way beyond the stratosphere" in magnitude, but I respect the F-A guys' experience in being able to judge fairly accurately their own products, and have no reason whatsoever to disbelieve their positive findings.
 
ETA for my amp is Friday, so will have the weekend to do further burn-in before I even bother to do any serious listening...so I (and you!!
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) will have to be patient lol!...CHEERS!...
 
richdytch said:
My hifi-making dad gave me a lifelong wariness of confirmation bias. My childhood was a succession of blind AB tests and afternoons spent describing the relative loudness of 3rd and 5th octave pink noise tracks. Confirmation bias still tricks me. But I try to not jump to conclusions about any piece of kit or tubes, etc, until I've lived with it for a while. That first switch on is always AMAZING. I think the best thing people can do to avoid hyperbole is just to chill out. Slow down a bit. And get your friends to help you to make your listening tests genuinely blind. It can be a pretty depressing or enlightening experience, depending of which way you are prone to take it.
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Ah yes, rd..."confirmation bias"...not to mention "autosuggestion", and "expectation bias" - I do have a fairly good understanding of these principles given my profession lol! It can indeed be VERY difficult not to be fooled...even when trying hard to avoid them!
 
You are spot on when you say "slow down a bit"...one does indeed need to spend a long time in the assessment process, if anything like a true and fair view is to be gained. And even then, things can change yet again after an even longer period of time has elapsed!
 
Nov 2, 2016 at 7:37 PM Post #3,250 of 11,833
Well, having lasted  72 years and counting, I see nothing wrong with a drink before bed, or after, or when ever the "need" arrases !  I envy you, your new journey with the improved Elise, but I can see the trepidation as well, to try to put aside any preconceived ideas or notions. Not going to be easy, but then, if it was too easy, it would not be too rewarding either. I will hoist one tonight for you and wish you fair skies and smooth seas.  Now that goes back away'does it not?
 
Nov 2, 2016 at 8:21 PM Post #3,251 of 11,833
Here is a question:
 
Did you ever notice that a new tube you are trying out seems to run hotter in the beginning compared to after having used it for a while? (The tube feels hotter to the touch, or the the amp itself seems hotter.)
 
Today I confirmed this with a new batch of RCA 6080 tubes. I have a Nubee infrared thermometer (around $13 from Amazon). After 20 min the temperature was 129C, but after two hours 111C.
 
The reason I am asking is if this temperature difference would be an indication if the tube is new, or used and burned in.
 
My general impression is that tubes that are burned in run cooler compared to when new. On the other hand, burn in takes much longer than a couple of hours - usually 30-50 hours and some even much longer. My well used EL3N tubes, which always were cool running, only measure 32C when warmed up.
 
Does anybody have any thoughts on this?
 
Nov 2, 2016 at 10:07 PM Post #3,252 of 11,833
mordy said:
  Here is a question:
 
Did you ever notice that a new tube you are trying out seems to run hotter in the beginning compared to after having used it for a while? (The tube feels hotter to the touch, or the the amp itself seems hotter.)
 
Today I confirmed this with a new batch of RCA 6080 tubes. I have a Nubee infrared thermometer (around $13 from Amazon). After 20 min the temperature was 129C, but after two hours 111C.
 
The reason I am asking is if this temperature difference would be an indication if the tube is new, or used and burned in.
 
My general impression is that tubes that are burned in run cooler compared to when new. On the other hand, burn in takes much longer than a couple of hours - usually 30-50 hours and some even much longer. My well used EL3N tubes, which always were cool running, only measure 32C when warmed up.
 
Does anybody have any thoughts on this?
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I haven't measured the temperature - but my 6-pack (NOS) is definately cooler running now than it was initially. 
I remembered people saying they ran cool and wondered what the heck they'd been smoking (drinking?) when I first got mine.
 
Nov 2, 2016 at 10:51 PM Post #3,253 of 11,833
I did a similar check of temperature between new (never used) 6922 Gold Lion versus one with 1000+ hours, both are the same temp in my Lyr2.  Cold start: 26.7C, 1 hour: 73.2C, 2 hour: 73.6, 24 hours: 73.2C.  Seems like the temp was affected more by the ambient temp.
 
Easy way to confirm if your 6080's are cooler after being in use is use one which has been used for awhile and a brand new one at the same time and see if there is a temp difference.
 
I'm using a Raytek Raynger "ST"
 

 
Nov 3, 2016 at 4:48 PM Post #3,255 of 11,833
I have the HD 650 twice. It is a great headphone. Also had the 700 and now moved up to the 800 and at this price I may just have to buy my third 650 they say once you have a 650 you just keep rebuying the stupid things should have kept at least one pair.
 
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