"Electronics Are Funny Things... Lessons Learned"
Aug 12, 2008 at 2:37 PM Thread Starter Post #1 of 17

Gradofan2

Headphoneus Supremus
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"Electronics are funny things" - I'm not even sure I'd understand it all any better... if... I were an EE. I'm not sure you can actually predict, accurately what the sound of any combination of components will produce.

I listened to my DV332, for the last time just before I shipped it out this weekend, with a different tube set, than I'd listened to previously... and... thought I'd made a big mistake selling it - it sounded so great with the new tubes and my RS-1s, D5000s, AD2000s... and... especially my HD580/600s. Absolutely... incredible (with all the usual adjectives and descripters of such sound quality being applicable).

I'm replacing it with the SP Extreme and the maxed out WA6 - I'll see how they compare in a few weeks. Though I'm skeptical that they can sound any better than... what I've discovered... by chance.

In the meantime... I'm forced to "make do" with what I have left, which is: my Monarchy M24 Tube DAC + Line Stage, my Marantz SA-8001, and my Cal Audio Alpha Tube DAC, driven through my... get this... Shellbrook Audio Labs Maxi Moy portable SS amp w OPA627s (a simple $100 SS amp).

The M24 has a tube line stage with a POT that can drive my Senns about as well as any amp - which is also incredible - and it was sounding great. Though it doesn't provide enough current output to drive my low impedance phones well.

So... I routed the signal from the M24 DAC and line stage to my Maxi Moy... and immediately the sound took on "incredible" new power and life for all my phones... but... my low impedance phones were now pretty bright... though still great.

Next... I tried my Marantz SA-8001 SACD with my Maxi-Moy, because the SA-8001s highs are more subdued. But... that combo... seemed too laid-back and reserved.

Finally... I routed the signal from my SA-8001... though the line stage of my M24... to my Maxi Moy... and"VOILA" or "BOOM"... pick whatever adjective you prefer... "TO THE MAX!"

Bass, details, soundstage, clarity, resolution, balance - you pick 'em - just simply incredible! Especially, with my low impedance phones - Denons, Grados and ATHs. The D5000s sound better than I've ever heard them... as do my RS-1s, and AD2000s - all low impedance phones - even better than with the X-CANv8, I think (though its been a month since I've heard that).

The D5000s... are literally astonishing - balanced, fast, tight, clear, detailed, resolved, airy, etc., etc.

The HD580/600s sound incredible as well - though they sound slightly better out of the Maxi Moy driven by my M24 DAC and line stage.

I'm reminded of some posts a year, or so, ago by "Akwok" I think, or it might have been "ASR," or "Chesebert," or someone - that the SS GLite, or GS-1, driven by the M24 were "about as good as it gets" - which is what motivated me to research and buy the M24. Seemed like the combination of SS and tubes - just gets the sound right.

This experience with the SS SA-8001, M24 and SS Maxi Moy... have taught me some valuable lessons.

First... SS "done right," with the right combination of components, can sound virtually as good as tube equipment - though, my M24 does have a tube line stage, which adds warmth and liquidity.

Second... very modestly priced components "done right" can sound, virtually, as good as the most expensive.

And...

Finally... "its all about matching components" (i.e. impedance matching, current matching, voltage matching, etc.).

The most terrible sounding phones with one set up (D5000s, or Senns, or whatever) can become the "World's Best Sounding Phones" with the right matching set up!

Quite literally!
 
Aug 12, 2008 at 2:47 PM Post #2 of 17
So, the question is what are you going to do with your SP Extreme and the maxed out WA6
confused_face.gif


Nice write up, thx
 
Aug 12, 2008 at 3:02 PM Post #3 of 17
Quote:

Originally Posted by Blackmore /img/forum/go_quote.gif
So, the question is what are you going to do with your SP Extreme and the maxed out WA6
confused_face.gif


Nice write up, thx



I'm wondering the same thing!

I'm beginning to think, they're going to be superfluous.

We'll see...

I'll either be "surprised and amazed" yet again... which I doubt, very much... or... they'll be for sale.
 
Aug 12, 2008 at 3:31 PM Post #4 of 17
you'd be amazed at all the marvelous and magical happenings of the electrical world. I stacked my BUF634's on my PIMETA amp and I ended up with a better sound than my headroom desktop amp. Hmm 100$ DIY amp sounds better than 700$ amp?!?!. Magic I guess.
 
Aug 12, 2008 at 4:47 PM Post #5 of 17
I think my ears are funnier things than the equipment I use. I love and marvel at all the little black boxes, with their arcane architecture and components, esoteric metals, and electronic alchemy, but in the end, my ears themselves are the weird and fussy part of the equation. The Philosoper's Stone of total synergy and perfect sound is elusive, and can be completely undermined by a well placed plug of earwax.
 
Aug 12, 2008 at 8:23 PM Post #6 of 17
Roger, great to hear you found something to take the place of your DV332, and so quickly too!
 
Aug 12, 2008 at 8:38 PM Post #7 of 17
I have a similar story: I just got a mini³ and I plugged the DT880 yesterday thinking it would not drive it properly. Well, you would not believe how this little thing sounds: GREAT. The lean bass of the phone is gone, and the Beyer becomes alive. Like a totally different phone. Amazing. A properly designed little and simple amp can sound very good. No need for esoteric multi-grand$$ equipment.
 
Aug 12, 2008 at 9:07 PM Post #8 of 17
Very interesting read.

I'm getting the impression from reading this forum that it's as important with synergy as it is with power.

I'm thinking about getting a Glite or other medium priced "SS done right" to supply my headphones with power, and then use my LD MKIII(or similar) in between the source as a preamp to the Glite to find the synergy by rolling tubes and to add a bit of tube-sound.

Synergy + Power = Bliss
beerchug.gif
 
Aug 12, 2008 at 10:19 PM Post #9 of 17
Quote:

Originally Posted by Henmyr /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Very interesting read.

I'm getting the impression from reading this forum that it's as important with synergy as it is with power.

I'm thinking about getting a Glite or other medium priced "SS done right" to supply my headphones with power, and then use my LD MKIII(or similar) in between the source as a preamp to the Glite to find the synergy by rolling tubes and to add a bit of tube-sound.

Synergy + Power = Bliss
beerchug.gif



Yes... I've not read much here about using a tube "pre-amp" circuit prior to a SS amp like the GLite... but... based on my recent experience - I would highly recommend that approach.

That is what I'm doing using a SS CDP into the M24 tube line stage into a "cheap" SS portable amp... with... simply incredible results!

I'm a bit tempted to scrap (sell the WA6 and Extreme) and just get a GLite to continue running my current configuration... or... just keep using my Maxi Moy in my current set up. Its really quite phenomenal... really! Such detail, PRAT, clarity, resolution, soundstage, and air - I will be amazed If these new tube amps will perform as well.
 
Aug 12, 2008 at 11:06 PM Post #10 of 17
Quote:

Originally Posted by robojack /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Roger, great to hear you found something to take the place of your DV332, and so quickly too!


Yeah... I'd been considering the WA6 and Extreme for a while... as well as the DV337, which is what I had planned to buy.

I figured, if I got the DV337... I'd still be curious about the others... so I just decided "to get it over with and be done with it." And... I was a bit "intimidated" by the "international" shipping, and potential for damage, and issues, which we've heard a bit about... and... given my experience in buying my DV332 (they sent me the 240 volt unit, not the 120 volt unit).

Although... I will admit... "I went a bit overboard." Just an over-reaction to the void left by my DV332.

If I'd known... how great my current set up sounded before, I "placed my orders," I guess I would have stuck with it for a while... maybe... indefinitely.

I'm now... even... thinking I would be happier with "the right" SS amp in my current configuration to replace my Maxi Moy. Maybe the GLite, or GS-1, or KICAS, or EC/SS. I'm so impressed with the sound, which is both tubey and highly resolved and detailed - which, I'll be surprised, if either of the amps I'm getting will match.

That is not to say... the DV332... is not grand - it is! But... I think my current set up... may be better - at least with low impedance phones - maybe not with Senns.
 
Aug 13, 2008 at 1:58 AM Post #12 of 17
Quote:

Originally Posted by demoNMaCHiN3 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
please don't take offense but i have to say this: please stop abusing ellipses and quotations!

that aside, good writeup. i agree with all your statements on synergy.



I call it "artistic license."

I find... its much easier to read text which contains lots of space (elipses and many paragraphs) and emphasis (quotation marks)... especially for "slang," and "trite expressions," "coloquialisms," or "key points," etc. I especially love "coloquialisms" of those of lesser intellect.

For casual communication, which this is, I find it "liberating" to "make up my own rules" and "stuff it in the eye" of those that would insist on "proper punctuation and grammatical usage." You know... "screw the establishment, dude."

In fact... I refuse to read long, continuous statements, with no spaces, breaks, or emphasis.
 
Aug 13, 2008 at 2:31 AM Post #13 of 17
You must..."hate me"...then...SOMETIMES..."dude"...

I tend to..."ramble on"...sometimes...
 
Aug 13, 2008 at 3:35 PM Post #14 of 17
Quote:

Originally Posted by Golden Monkey /img/forum/go_quote.gif
You must..."hate me"...then...SOMETIMES..."dude"...

I tend to..."ramble on"...sometimes...



"To each his own..."

We all "ramble on" occasionally.

But... that's a good start at making your "rambling on" more readable!
 
Aug 14, 2008 at 2:48 PM Post #15 of 17
Im glad i kept my maxi Moy then......but i need to somehow mount the darn batteries in there better because i hate the dangling theyre doing now. The newer Maxi Moy had them on board mounts, uber cool.
 

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