[DarkAngel]

Please discuss your favorite recordings here, many smaller posts in past on Dvorak but this can serve as unversal discussion thread. I have very large collection of both composers now and more recently I have been on a quest to find the best Smetana "ma vlast" cycle.

I just love the colorful folk elements that are contained in many works by these composers, it is easy to visualize scences from mountains, rivers, forests, villages of eastern europe when listening to these works.

Let me start by posting my absolute favorite Dvork 9th:

No surprise that Kubelik takes the palm, this is an especially attractive release since you get his best performance of D9 remastered with equally smashing D8 on single mid priced CD. Also available in complete DG box set and DG Double 2CD 7-9 release.

For more Kubelik versions of D9 you have his VPO/Decca Legends which is excellent and a CSO/Mercury performance is contained in larger 4CD Mercury set paired with best "ma vlast" I have ever heard.......but I get ahead of myself here

 

[SoundsGood]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkAngel /img/forum/go_quote.gif Let me start by posting my absolute favorite Dvork 9th: No surprise that Kubelik takes the palm, this is an especially attractive release since you get his best performance of D9 remastered with equally smashing D8 on single mid priced CD. Also available in complete DG box set and DG Double 2CD 7-9 release. For more Kubelik versions of D9 you have his VPO/Decca Legends which is excellent and a CSO/Mercury performance is contained in larger 4CD Mercury set paired with best "ma vlast" I have ever heard.......but I get ahead of myself here

I agree, this CD is wonderful. Both performances are top notch, but I do prefer the Ninth on this release. I think he makes the Eighth sound just a little too apocalyptic, but that's just my personal preference. My favorite Eighth is actually with Christoph von Dohnanyi and the Cleveland Orchestra:

The other items on the two-disc set are very good as well, but the Eighth stands out to me.

As for Ma Vlast (I'm actually conducting The Moldau right now), you can't go wrong with Karel Ancerl and the Czech Philharmonic:

This is simply a wonderful recording.

I must also recommend this fabulous disc with Ferenc Fricsay and the Berlin Philharmonic:

A stunning Dvorak 9, a wonderful Moldau, and great Les Preludes. Not to be missed.

 

[DarkAngel]

SG
Those are all great Cds for sure, love Dohnanyi 7-9 set also especially his "scherzo capriccioso" maybe best I have ever heard, for some strange reason cannot find any Kubelik version of scherzo?????

Another great 7-9 set is to pair these two Cds:
Dohnanyi/Decca 7,8
Kondrashin/Decca 9

Also didn't know you are actually conducting "Moldau" from Ma Vlast, great to hear!
Is Ancerl/Supraphon your absolute favorite version of "ma vlast" cycle?

I think I have about 75% of all those Ancerl/Supraphon series

 

[mbhaub]

Favorite "From the New World": Kondrashin with Vienna on Decca.
Favorite "Ma Vlast": Vaclav Smetacek with the Czech Philharmonic on Supraphon, despite the sometimes suspect woodwind tuning. 2nd choice is Macal and Milwaukee on Telarc (Great sound!).

There are so many, many fine recordings of the New World that quibbling about them is pointless. I have a lot already, but always looking for new ones and the Fricsay needs to be added to the pile.

As far as Dvorak cycles go, I have three: Kertesz (Decca), Rowicki (Philips) and Kubelik (DG). Of them, I really have to give the nod to Rowicki. They are youthful, fresh, exciting and they move! Thrilling stuff. The LSO was in fine form and Philips sound was superb.

If you're only interested in the last three symphonies (and many people are), an unlikely source is from Neville Marriner and the Academy of St. Martin's in the Field. Late in his career Sir Neville showed there was more to him than Bach, Vivaldi and Mozart. He could actually whip up a storm of excitement and his Dvorak, Tchaikovsky (Manfred especially), Bruckner, Brahms are superb.

Would it be rude to mention worst recordings? For the New World there are two that just amaze me how tasteless they are. One surprised me: Lorin Maazel in Berlin. He inserts all sorts of ritards and pauses in the first movement that utterly destroy its flow. Terrible. Even worse is Svetlanov's on Melodiya. Besides blustering through the work in the most loud, vulgar way, the final chord isn't played diminuendo, but he plays it full blast! Hideous!

 

[DarkAngel]

This thread already costing me money...........order placed for Vaclav Smetacek performance of "ma vlast"

 

[Chris-2]

Hi Dark Angel,

I am most interested reading you in these Composers, as almost all the Dvorak works I have heard I like, and some a lot, and I like most of Smetana's "Ma Vlast".

On #9,"New World" I agree with you for Kubelik/Berlin, and I had recently bought this set as I have that #8 on LP and don't want to wear it out as it has to survive for when analog is needed by me ...
I have several #9s, and probably rate this one the highest, though I do like Kondrashin's a lot also.

On #8 I do like Dohnanyi/Cleveland, though not quite to the degree of Kubelik/Berlin, however I will still be listening to Dohnanyi's at times.

I think Dohnanyi pushes #9 too hard and loses some of the subtlety and beauty in the detail, where relevent.

I have Kertez on vinyl LPs for all of 5 <--> 9 , and like a lot.

Hearing music from all-Analog is a different experience for me than hearing from Digital recordings or reproductions.

For the Smetana, I have read that Kubelik's final recording of it, for which he came out of retirement and conducted a Concert of in his home-land, is his best and one of the very best.
It is released on a Supraphon CD.
I intend to buy a copy at some time.
This music can sound unlistenable, and make no sense when performed poorly, including when Overdone as well as when Underdone.
__________________________________________________ ______________


Quote:

Originally Posted by mbhaub /img/forum/go_quote.gif Late in his career Sir Neville showed there was more to him than Bach, Vivaldi and Mozart. He could actually whip up a storm of excitement and his Dvorak, Tchaikovsky (Manfred especially), Bruckner, Brahms are superb. Would it be rude to mention worst recordings? For the New World there are two that just amaze me how tasteless they are. One surprised me: Lorin Maazel in Berlin. He inserts all sorts of ritards and pauses in the first movement that utterly destroy its flow. Terrible. Even worse is Svetlanov's on Melodiya. Besides blustering through the work in the most loud, vulgar way, the final chord isn't played diminuendo, but he plays it full blast! Hideous!

Hi mbhaub,

I'd believe Marriner would be OK for some of those, but with Tchaikovsky's "Manfred" ? - I'd have to hear it to believe it ...

On the Worsts :- it once amazed me, but less so now as I have got used to it, unfortunately, just how insensitive or plain bad both Maazel and Svetlanov can be sometimes, for two Conductors who have been so good, and seemingly true to the music previously.

In Maazel's case I think he may have become burnt out as result of the expectations placed on him and about him, though this is partly his own fault for going along with some of the recording projects that were put to him for the less-than-genuine music purposes.

Svetlanov seems to have been too full of himself in his own regard of his abilities, thus sometimes he blows it, and sometimes it sounds as though he has no respect of the audience ... all a pity for a man who was very talented.

Uhmm, at the risk of upsetting fans of Valerie Gergiev, I think he is worse, plus sometimes seems to not put in sufficient effort.
He probably cares more about his International audience than Svetlanov, who was a product of Russian-is-best and likely didn't consider he would have an International audience, but Gergiev seems to put himself in front of the music, on recordings at least, I've not attended a Concert with him conducting, and don't feel inclined to !

Chris

 

[Rlynn]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris-2 /img/forum/go_quote.gif For the Smetana, I have read that Kubelik's final recording of it, for which he came out of retirement and conducted a Concert of in his home-land, is his best and one of the very best. It is released on a Supraphon CD.

I have this recording and enjoy it immensely. Having not heard his other version, though, I can't make a comparison. The liner notes are quite emotional, telling of Kublik's 41 year exile, becoming deathly ill, then recovering to play this in his homeland on the banks of the Moldau: "Under the Vyšehrad rock flowed the river Vltava in a glittering stream, the May sun reflecting the silhouette of the Hradcany castle in its waters."

For the Dvorak symphonies, I also like the Rowicki on Philips, very clean and fresh. Recently I heard the Reiner CSO 9th on the radio, very dramatic and engaging. I might have to get a copy of this, though maybe after the Fricsay.

 

[DarkAngel]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris-2 /img/forum/go_quote.gif For the Smetana, I have read that Kubelik's final recording of it, for which he came out of retirement and conducted a Concert of in his home-land, is his best and one of the very best. It is released on a Supraphon CD. I intend to buy a copy at some time.

Interesting background note............Smetana like Beethoven lost his hearing and actually composed Ma Vlast with his hearing gone, just amazing what can accomplished by some artists!

Kubelik has 5 recordings of Ma Vlast from his early 1950's mono version with CSO/Mercury to his final Czech PO/Supraphon version in 1990's.......and his first and last are the best two to own.

A very noticeable change in style during those 40 years, the Chicago version very dramatic and energetic full of youthful passion and optimism, in many ways this version has never been surpassed. His final Czech PO version was a homecoming with his beloved orchestra after fall of berlin wall and opening of eastern europe, this is a more reflective mature style like sharing oldtimes with longtime friend. One should not have to choose between these two great versions........only sensible approach is to own both of course!

Of course there are many other versions with much to offer for those that take the time to seek them out

 

[Mark from HFR]

Hmm, Dvorak thoughts:

1-3: No strong preference, don't listen to them much
4: Kertesz has just boundless wells of energy, Kubelik almost as good. Would like to hear Rowicki here
5: Jansons
6: Kertesz with Dohnanyi in close 2nd
7: Dohnanyi all the way, Kubelik is good, Barbirolli is grand, Szell is intense, Monteux is glowing
8: Harnoncourt brings the 2nd mvt to life like no one else, but Dohnanyi's finale is his greatest moment on record. Barbirolli is great here, too. Walter is sweet, Karajan sweeping.
9: Dohnanyi is wonderfully driving, Szell even more so. Kubelik & Kondrashin are also first-rate. Also like the freshness of Abbado and Harnoncourt in 9. Solti's CSO 9 was good, too. Old VSO 9th by Horenstein is my favorite mono version.
Tone Poems: Harnoncourt
Scherzo capriccioso: Dohnanyi, though Vernon Handley did a nice version of this, too. The piece is superb, I can't understand why it isn't recorded more often.
In Nature's Realm/Carnival/Othello: Handley
Slavonic Dances: Harnoncourt turns each one into a little tone poem

Smetana
Ma Vlast: Any/all Kubeliks are sure winners, Macal's recorded sound is great
Other tone poems: Kubelik actually makes me like some of these better than parts of Ma Vlast

As for worsts, that Maazel Berlin set was pretty dire, indeed. Harnoncourt's 7th is awfully grim, nowhere near as expressive as his 8 and 9. Giulini's late 7 & 9 are rather slack, though his earlier Philharmonia 9 is very exciting. Some will no doubt hate Bernstein's late 9th with the IPO, featuring a Largo that runs something like 18 minutes, but I like it now and then for a change.

Mark

 

[SoundsGood]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkAngel /img/forum/go_quote.gif SG Those are all great Cds for sure, love Dohnanyi 7-9 set also especially his "scherzo capriccioso" maybe best I have ever heard, for some strange reason cannot find any Kubelik version of scherzo????? Another great 7-9 set is to pair these two Cds: Dohnanyi/Decca 7,8 Kondrashin/Decca 9 Also didn't know you are actually conducting "Moldau" from Ma Vlast, great to hear! Is Ancerl/Supraphon your absolute favorite version of "ma vlast" cycle? I think I have about 75% of all those Ancerl/Supraphon series

The Ancerl is probably my favorite Ma Vlast, and I also own a fair number of the Ancerl Gold series. What a gold mine! I also enjoy Kubelik's Boston Symphony recording, and am interested in hearing his final recording with the Czech Phil. Harnoncourt's Ma Vlast is certainly interesting. Definitely not a "mainstream" recording, but he always has something different to say. I don't like all of it, but I like hearing what Harnoncourt has to say.

As for Dvorak 9, I agree with some of the other recommendations going around. I like the Harnoncourt/RCO D9 a lot, as well as the classic Reiner CSO Ninth. Of course Ancerl/Czech Phil is very good too.

I've been interested in getting the Otmar Suitner/Berlin Staatskapelle set of Dvorak Symphonies and I've always wanted to hear the Harnoncourt/RCO Dvorak Eighth. I was not aware of the Kondrashin/VPO Dvorak 9, but am definitely interested in that one too. So many choices!

 

[Facade19]

I am looking for recommendations for Dvorak's "Hero's Song".
Would really appreciate it.
Thx!

 

[Agent Kang]

Here's my top 8 Dvorak:

1)Cello Concerto - Du Pre
2)Piano Trio #3 - Suk Trio
3)Symphony #7 - Kondrashin
4)Symphony #9 - as already mentioned in the thread, I like Kubelik alot for this one but the recording that gets the most playing time is the mono Horenstein. Honorable mention: Szell and Reiner.
5)String Quartet "American" - Smentana Quartet
6)Slavonic Dances - Both Kubelik/BRSO and Szell/CSO are great to own.
7)Piano Quintet - Haefliger/Takacs (awesome recording!). I also have the Richter/Borodin which is I find disappointing.
8)Symphonic Poems - I have the Jarvi set which I found quite satisfying until I had the pleasure of listening to Harnoncourt's.

Who am i kidding!!? I love everything by Dvorak. Everyone appreciates his orchestral works of staggering genius, but I personally prefer his chamber works; piano trio op. 65, string quartet 106, piano quintet 81, serenades for strings....magic!

 

[DarkAngel]

I see a couple mentions of the old mono Horenstein/Vox 9th.......have you guys heard the newer stereo Horenstein/Chesky 9th, if not perhaps you should I suspect it may retire the Vox 9th for you

As far as complete Dvorak 1-9 sets I have:

Kubelik/DG
Suitner/Berlin Classics
Kertesz/Decca
Neumann/Supraphon (4-9 partial set)

A bit of wasted material since I almost never listen to symphonies 1-3, very little 4,5,6 and almost all attention 7,8,9. As this thread progresses I hope to spend more time getting to know middle symphonies 4-6. I will be going through these all again in near future as this thread progresses.

Then for the ever popular and economical 2CD 7-9 sets I have quite a few, at least 10 will have to take stock soon

 

[SoundsGood]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkAngel /img/forum/go_quote.gif As far as complete Dvorak 1-9 sets I have: Kubelik/DG Suitner/Berlin Classics Kertesz/Decca Neumann/Supraphon (4-9 partial set) A bit of wasted material since I almost never listen to symphonies 1-3, very little 4,5,6 and almost all attention 7,8,9. As this thread progresses I hope to spend more time getting to know middle symphonies 4-6. I will be going through these all again in near future as this thread progresses. Then for the ever popular and economical 2CD 7-9 sets I have quite a few, at least 10 will have to take stock soon

DA,

How do you like the Suitner and Neumann sets? I've always been very interested in both of these. How do they compare, I guess specifically in the later symphonies?

 

[DarkAngel]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoundsGood /img/forum/go_quote.gif DA, How do you like the Suitner and Neumann sets? I've always been very interested in both of these. How do they compare, I guess specifically in the later symphonies?

I will comment on these in the near future, it has been sometime since I last listened to them so want to hear them again first. I just got the Suitner set last year and only listened to later symphonies once so I must get to work here.

The Neumann/CPO/Supraphon I have had for a few years now and it is sold as complete set or you can buy them in three smaller editions of three symphonies each. I know they are very good but must listen again to comment in detail.

Like Kubelik, Neumann is almost always on the mark with his Dvorak work, his Slavonic Dance set with Czech PO maybe my very favorite by anyone. He also has an equally great set with LGO.