[Orpheus]

in anticipation of the arrival of my Pioneer dv47ai, i bought a couple DVD-A's. playing them on my 963sa right now in dvd mode... dang man, dvd-a's are COOL! i love having music videos on the same disc, and when the pioneer arrives, i even get better than cd quality.

man, i dunno what people see in sacd. if home-theater's the future, dvd-a has got to be the format of choice.

heck, even if dvd-a tanks, i can still play the dvd-a's i bought in normal dvd players, which i guess is good too... though i'm hoping it doesn't. man, i'm having so much fun with them right now.

hmm.... gonna have to add a video studio now to Falling to Dreams to do the titles for dvd-a. heh he....

 

[elrod-tom]

I agree...it's the superior format IMHO. I'm hoping that the format sticks. Unfortunately, the only way I see an improvement in the sale of these discs is to develop some kind of combo CD/DVD-A format (like the two-sided ones that were floating around for a time). They need to find something to compete with the hybrid CD/SACD discs.

 

[Welly Wu]

[size=xx-large]I PRAISE THE GENIUS WHO BE LOVIN' DVD-AUDIO, SUCKA![/size]

 

[gpalmer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orpheus heck, even if dvd-a tanks, i can still play the dvd-a's i bought in normal dvd players, which i guess is good too... though i'm hoping it doesn't. man, i'm having so much fun with them right now.

Having high quality source even if the format goes belly up is one of the things I liked though it will be a bit problematical for portable use. I just wish they would release some content on it.

 

[markl]

The SACD spec has provisions for video content. Just hasn't been implemented yet.

 

[Orpheus]

the MAJOR downside i see is that i can't find any of my favorite music in DVD-A... at least not at Best Buy. sucks. if they start putting out some good electronica out on dvd-a, man, i'm gonna feel so sorry for my wallet...

 

[tkam]

Quote:

Originally Posted by elrod-tom I agree...it's the superior format IMHO. I'm hoping that the format sticks. Unfortunately, the only way I see an improvement in the sale of these discs is to develop some kind of combo CD/DVD-A format (like the two-sided ones that were floating around for a time). They need to find something to compete with the hybrid CD/SACD discs.

I believe a standard for hybrid dvd-a's was recently passed. So we should start seeing dual layer dvd-a's that have a cd layer pretty soon.

 

[Welly Wu]

There are two competing formats: DualDisc and DVD+. Both promise a Red Book CD layer on one side of the disc with a hi-rez multi-channel DVD-Audio layer on the other side. The difference between DualDisc and DVD+ is a matter of technical implementation. DualDisc is rumored to have a storage capacity of only 60 minutes of music for the Red Book CD layer side and multi-channel only DVD-Audio layer side with an approximate thickness of 1.48mm. Some speculate that is pushing the maximum thickness of 1.50mm which would make it jam if the disc is put in the CD player of a automobile.

It is interesting to note that the competing DVD+ format has gotten very scant press as of late. No word on its rise in popularity or demise have surfaced to my knowledge.

Of course, these are all rumors. The proof will be when the first discs are pressed and ready for sale. You know I'll be among the first in my state to get one and report my findings here among other places!

 

[Orpheus]

so, when they gonna really start advertising dvd-a??? i mean, once people start buying these things and seeing how cool they really are, it will catch on. i'm surprised they don't sell more--people gotta love the video clips they include in these things.

 

[Welly Wu]

Orpheus:

First, people got to know about it.

There are many ways to advertise hi-rez hardware and software. One way is to make the hardware more accessible and affordable. That is a key and critical step in an overall marketing program. The third and fourth quarter of 2004 will usher in new universal DVD players that handle both hi-rez formats along with Red Book CD and DVD-Video catering to all price points from as low as $150 - $75,000 USD.

There are a couple of key points to note: 1. audio / video companies ranging from Samsung up to Goldmund are investing R&D and marketing in manufacturing and selling these universal DVD players which should demonstrate some degree of commitment on their collective parts in giving the consumer the power of choice to decide which hi-rez format succeeds (I hope both flourish together), 2. if you take a look at the bevy of universal DVD players being offered within that $150 - $75,000 USD price bracket, then you will see the most number of universal DVD players manufactured are targeted at the < $500 USD and over $2000 USD price ceilings; in other words, these audio / video manufacturers are targeting the general populous by attracting both those with limited and more robust means. Furthermore, you have very few manufacturers investing well over $10,000 USD into universal DVD players but they are indeed available by speciality audio / videophile companies such as Linn, Bel Canto, Goldmund, and Lexicon.

With more universal DVD players making it to market in the last half of 2004, consumers will have the hardware incentive to invest in hi-rez. It is not unreasonable to deduce that there will be heightened interest in hi-rez software. I say so because think about all that SONY, Philips, and the DVD Consortium have done in their pricing of hi-rez media thus far. SONY and Philips have mandated that all future SA-CD releases be Hybrid SA-CDs and competitively priced around the $12 - $17 USD much like their Red Book CD counterparts. Furthermore, the DVD Consortium has just approved DualDisc (as I have mentioned in an earlier in this same thread) which means that the DVD-Audio format will too compete against Hybrid SA-CDs by offering a Red Book CD layered side and a multi-channel DVD-Audio layered side on the same disc. The key questions regarding DualDisc are 1. will it be compatible with all Red Book CD players, 2. will it be unencumbered by capacity restrictions, 3. will it offer the same entertainment value as conventional DVD-Audio discs? If DualDisc succeeds modestly (as I hope it will), then the DVD-Audio format will survive another year. If it fails, then all of those universal DVD players hitting the markets in late 2004 will still be compatible with DVD-Audio titles but the format will not be bolstered by such a risky venture in the form of DualDisc. Make no mistake: DualDisc or DVD+ will make or break DVD-Audio in the ensuing months.

I hope this is all helpful to our readership. Thank you for your time.

 

[markl]

Just a side note, neither here nor there; from what I've read, discs of any kind cannot exceed a certain thickness or they start to become incompatible with more and more players, they have to maintain a certain thin-ness to meet the spec. In order to make the dual-sided DVD-As work, you end up with very little protection for the discs as they are true dual-layer pieces, they will be much more vulnerable to deterioration and scratches that will be more likely to cause skipping. This is speculation, as there have only been a few small test markets for the Dual discs so far, and they weren't measuring longevity, just the ability to play the discs in regular CD players. Just another factoid to ponder...

 

[Welly Wu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by markl Just a side note, neither here nor there; from what I've read, discs of any kind cannot exceed a certain thickness or they start to become incompatible with more and more players, they have to maintain a certain thin-ness to meet the spec. In order to make the dual-sided DVD-As work, you end up with very little protection for the discs as they are true dual-layer pieces, they will be much more vulnerable to deterioration and scratches that will be more likely to cause skipping. This is speculation, as there have only been a few small test markets for the Dual discs so far, and they weren't measuring longevity, just the ability to play the discs in regular CD players. Just another factoid to ponder...

That's right: 1.50mm is the maximum thickness before you lose that critical 95% compatibility threshold. DualDisc is rumored at 1.48mm which is damned close. What ever happened to DVD+?

 

[Orpheus]

thanks welly for the thoughtful post...

but i think the main point here is the the masses just don't care about a higher-res format. but what they DO care about would be the cool video stuff on DVD-A's, which i would think was what the creators were banking on--dunno why they aren't advertising the hell out of it.

none of my friends, when they come over and see all the crap i have, do they ever oggle and drool. most people just don't care about all this stuff. but i do know all my friends would love all the free video stuff.

and heck, the dvd-a's at best buy are almost the same price as normal cd's. no reason not to get them!

 

[Welly Wu]

Orpheus:

If you are talking about incorporating both the DVD-Video and DVD-Audio content onto the same disc and adding a Red Book CD layered side, then that is exactly the promise of DualDisc (albeit the technical implementations have yet to prove whether the promise can be delivered; time will tell).

If you are talking about simply incorporating DVD-Video along with DVD-Audio together, then I would say that the recording labels are taking a different tack: to sell a bonus DVD with select artists and their newest Red Book CD releases which have proven to be a very effective strategy to lure customers to buy more music. That is not to say that both the DVD-Video and DVD-Audio content cannot be incorporated onto the same disc; it simply is a rather innovative idea that has not been tested on a widespread scale to the best of my knowledge. To do so, you would need a double layered, double sided DVD-9 disc to store both the DVD-Video and DVD-Audio multi / two channel material on opposite sides of the same disc. There should not be a technical problem in doing so because record labels do indeed have access to standard thickness double layered, double sided DVD-9 discs. The reason why it has not been done so yet is because of the additional manufacturing costs. Also, think about this question: what incentive would record labels have of doing such a thing when they can sell both the DVD-Video and DVD-Audio content on separate discs at prices the market is willing to bear? For example, Renee Fleming recently recorded both the Carnegie Hall and studio version of her latest album, Bel Canto. Her very shrewd record label decided to sell the DVD-Video version separately from the DVD-Audio version which is too separate from the Red Book CD version and the SA-CD version. The result: she reaches all of her adoring audience across entirely different formats and by doing so she garners four distinct streams of revenue with absolutely no technical problems to mire her down. It seems beauty, talent, and skill are no strangers to one another!

 

[Orpheus]

actually, what i meant was that i like DVD-A's as is. the ones i bought had music videos, nice looking menus, and also when you play the actual song, lyrics appear on the screen. really cool.

so, the industry should market the video aspect of dvd-a's... and just the whole aesthetics of it all. cause, most people don't really care about the extreme sound quality--cd's are good enough for 99% of the population.