[cdacosta]

Crystals update...

I believe that experience is gained by doing and this process is slow. I also believe that one can speed up the learning curve by learning from other's experiences, like from Entreq and in this case Tweek Geek. They state from their testing, streaming is very effected from crystals. I really expected a lot of experimenting but the first thing I tried worked really well. My internet is from Comcast, which is cable based. There is a cable output at the wall in my office. I placed a small rose (strawberry colored rose to be exact) crystal on the top of the connector at the wall, held down with masking tape. The crystal is directly touching the connector. The mid range and mid bass got thicker, warmer and lost some resolution. Then took a small white or clear crystal and using masking tape, placed it on the bottom of the connector. Exactly opposite side of the small rose crystal. Important that each crystal is small like 8mm or so wide and long, with one side being fairly flat so it can make enough contact with the connector shell. if the crystal is too large or thick the effect is too strong, sounds odd with the overall presentation sounding imbalanced. I would bet different sized crystals would yield differing results.

After adding the second crystal (clear) the effect changed from the rose crystal first installed to more like before/without the rose crystal. But with a thin layer masking what is heard being removed. Now the presentation sounds even more spacious and with a bit more precision in the presentation. Kind of hard to explain, one has to hear it to understand. I did this last night. I think it sounds better now than last night, likely needed time to settle-in. Definitely like what this did. The change is almost as impactful as changing a cable. I would wager that different crystal types/colors will again change the overall presentation. I will experiment further. This is definitely interesting. Pic is of an example of the crystals I used and the sizes I used. Not ground box related but this tweak definitely works well with everything else in this thread.

 

[cdacosta]

I will next test to see how important it is to have the crystals touching the connector vs say with an adhesive like BluTack between the crystal and the connector. Will also test to see what other combinations of the crystals will do. I want to test the harmonic frequency of the crystal effecting the surface it is touching theory I have. Or is the crystal really just drawing EMI from the immediate area like I have read many times?

 

[cdacosta]

LOL these crystals are a trip. After an hour of trying different really small crystals in two areas I am starting to understand how these crystals can be used for tuning. Both of the following locations were just because I was curious.

The two locations I tried placing a single small stone:

* The RJ45 connector metal housing at the PC/source on the Odin 2 Ethernet cable. This cable goes from the modem/router to the PC. I tried first just one small clear crystal taped in place with masking tape. That sounded good, a nudge towards a live presentation with a bit better outline of notes mid range to upper frequencies. Then tried three different types of small crystals one at a time on the opposite side of the connector, using masking tape to attach. Tried clear, strawberry rose, then amethyst. Sounded best with just the singular clear crystal. Then tried using Blutack instead of having the crystal in direct contact with the connector. The effect is different. Also less of an effect but there is an audible effect, even with the crystal not touching the connector housing. It seems the darker the color of the crystal the lower the frequency bands are mostly effected. I did not try the green aventurine yet. I think the crystal does impart the harmonic frequency of the crystal to whatever it is touching. May also be possible the crystal does in fact absorb noise within a certain frequency band. With the clear crystal used the background does get or feel darker, even at a low volume level.

* There is a Odin Gold power cable powering the amp. This cable is modified with a ground cable at the IEC end that terminates at a ground box. On the cable itself, about 1/2" just before the edge of the IEC connector, I placed a small clear crystal at the top of the cable. I used Blutack to adhere the crystal to the cable. This opened up the presentation a bit and added a bit more air to mid to upper frequencies. Then tried adding a small strawberry rose crystal at the opposite side, removed and then settled with it right next to the clear crystal. The amp is close to me so it is easy to try the above while listening to the system. I can hear the change immediately. There is no delay and the change is not drastic or subtle. The changes were very easily heard and obvious. Kind or tuning the sonic signature of the power cable.

More to come once I have more time to experiment.

 

[Jake2]

Good tips on the fuses guys and interesting experimentation with crystals - I need to get and try some more (my external clock is greedily hogging all my first batch as it seemed the most sonic bang for buck location).

So after a very long shipping wait (2 months today) this has finally arrived from the Philippines.

I was just going to follow my nose to enclose - as best I can, probably just sides and top - a toroidal transformer or two in my DAC to start with. Any tips and tricks? Can I use copper foil or aluminium foil tape to hold it together or would you recommend I use something else?

https://diyhifisupply.com/product/f...ding-sheet-0-15mm-305-x-203mm-or-12-x-8-inch/

 

[cdacosta]

Good tips on the fuses guys and interesting experimentation with crystals - I need to get and try some more (my external clock is greedily hogging all my first batch as it seemed the most sonic bang for buck location).

So after a very long shipping wait (2 months today) this has finally arrived from the Phillipines.

I was just going to follow my nose to enclose - as best I can, probably just sides and top - a toroidal transformer or two in my DAC to start with. Any tips and tricks? Can I use copper foil or aluminium foil tape to hold it together or would you recommend I use something else?

https://diyhifisupply.com/product/f...ding-sheet-0-15mm-305-x-203mm-or-12-x-8-inch/

I use TI-Shield (no longer available/sold) which is a copper/aluminum/alloy sheet. I use plastic wire ties to hold the shielding material in place around transformers. I also use dampening material between the transformer and shielding material.

 

[Jake2]

I use TI-Shield (no longer available/sold) which is a copper/aluminum/alloy sheet. I use plastic wire ties to hold the shielding material in place around transformers. I also use dampening material between the transformer and shielding material.

Ok that worked damn well as a first test, rough proof of concept. Wow.

So coincidentally this Mu Metal sheet I ordered months ago finally arrived today. Gave it a go, as you do, making a shroud for one of the R26’s toroidals and… WOW. Bigger, juicier, more flowing sound with less glare/hardness the standout impression after a couple of ABs incl a noticeable difference adding the hat, which is temp, will shape to be a round cap. I mean I added extra copper shielding between the LPS section and the digital section a while back but got nothing like this change. Damn, just shows what magnetic fields can do.

I keep saying this but that’s gotta be the best $25 I’ve spent in recent times, and there’s half left to do the other toroidal.

TBC…

 

[Jake2]

So it could sit flush on the bottom of the case I cut out two scalloped sections on the bottom edges of the Mu Metal cylinders for the wires exiting the toroidal and taped up the sharp edges with electrical insulation tape. Measuring and cutting that took the most time.

 

[cdacosta]

Ok that worked damn well as a first test, rough proof of concept. Wow.

I do something similar with almost all my gear, but use TI-Shield. You want to have a dampening sheet of some kind between the metal shield and the toroid. I use EAR ISODAMP SD40, it is a thin self adhesive flexible dampening material. Cut it to match the shielding material and install onto the shielding material. Wrap around toroid and use two plastic wire ties to secure the shielding material to toroid. Electronic components in our gear, especially DACs are very sensitive to magnetic fields, EMI and RFI. I use fine sandpaper and round the edges of the metal shield so it is not sharp. Electrical tape will eventually come off because of the heat. Alternatively if you do not have or cannot get good dampening material, you can cut an oversized piece of heat shrink tubing to match the size of the shield. Just place the heat shrink material between the metal and toroid. The dampening material minimizes or eliminates (depending on how good the dampening material is) vibration of the metal shield. AC flow or toroid will cause micro vibration.

 

[cdacosta]

Found another very nice place for crystals. This one is really good.

A single small 8mm or smaller crystal with at least one side flat. Tried many in a bag or several crystals in a bag first and did not like it. One clear crystal on the body of the breaker that powers the system. I placed it at the center of the body of the breaker, held in place with masking tape. Flat part of the crystal touching the breaker body directly. I ordered more Blutack to try it that way also. Opens up the presentation and seems to effect the entire frequency range. Adds to overall precision. I wanted and like more body so tried a small strawberry (also known as rose) crystal. Sounded best to the left of the breaker, not on the breaker. The effect is it added body back to the presentation. Overall after the above two added crystals and one below, I can better hear sounds or notes also floating behind me, kind of trippy.

Now I wanted to know will the crystals effect other breakers, not linked to the system. Yes it does, the effect is less but still obvious. You will have to experiment on additional placement and how it effects your system. The effect of this tweak at this location is not like anything else I can think of. But definitely recommend you try it to experience it.

 

[cdacosta]

Here is an update of the crystals on the face body of circuit breakers installed yesterday.

Has been a bit over 24 hours and system warms back up. I was getting use to the air I was getting yesterday so in three ground boxes I added 5-6 white crystals onto the top of the mix. Air is back but with a tube-ish warmth to the presentation. Nice added bite to piano notes and vocal trailing edges and decay. Upper frequency notes like cymbals, metal top hats and tambourines have a more like live/in person feel. The three ground boxes I placed the 5-6 crystals in are filtering:

* the coax connector supplying Internet at the wall
* amp analog output
* SPDIF cable and DAC BNC output

So if the reader has any of my DIY ground boxes, the clear or white crystals on the top of the mix are worth a try. Adds a spice to the mid to top end frequencies that the other minerals used don't quite replicate. I will have to wait at least 24 hours before trying to add more or to other ground boxes. Need to know what settling in does or sounds like.

 

[Wladimir]

Hey guys, seeing you're experimenting with the crystals, which is my area of interest for the last few years, I thought I would give you some of my knowledge/understanding/experience of how this thing work and how to achieve best benefits with them.

Actually, what brought my interest in this field is the guy under the brand name Audiophile Rocks, who is inventing crystal formulas for about a decade and is the nicest, most helpful and knowledgeable guy I've ever dealt with in audio industry (imagine cdacosta, but in the crystals field). I'm utilizing some of his creations with an extremely large benefit, especially the Terminos (RCA plugs filled with his unique formula) and we've been discussing the effects and principles for quite some time now (and no, we're not affiliated, I just like to give credit to whomever deserves it).

My current understanding of the working principle of crystals on our audio gear is in two domains:

1. Area/field effect - this is the most usual effect you're here experiencing, as it obviously seems/sounds that the proximity of crystals near the signal conductors alters the sound, based on frequency of the crystal. The most common type is clear crystal, which is tilting the tonality the higher-end of the frequency spectrum, cleaning/harmonizing it from any present pollution and thus perceivably enhancing it, but at the same time exaggerating it, so one has to be careful not to overdo it.
I think this is the same principle as some electronic field conditioners use, such as Nordost Q-Point Resonance Synchronizer and although this doesn't change the tonal balance as much, the mechanism of action seems similar, overwriting the surrounding EMI/RFI mix of frequencies to a single coherent one.

2. The other lesser known, but I would argue a potentially more important mechanism of action of a crystal is its physical/contact resonance characteristic. And here it gets more interesting, because in order to understand how is it actually working, I believe we ought to take a peek at quantum mechanics. In this realms, there's no such thing as solid matter, in other words, everything we perceive as solid, is just a sum of extremely fast oscillating particles (or waves, or both, right? . Now, we have to take into consideration that each material has its own resonance characteristics and that is perceivably manifested in "sound" of the material. Just a simple knock on the material reveals its sound.

The reason why I'm writing all of this is because after countless experiments over the years in resonance management department, I've come to conclusion that the resonance of each component gets translated into the resulting sound. What is the mechanism behind it is beyond my imagination, especially in the digital part of the chain, but the fact remains that each time I change the resonance of any component of the chain, the sound changes with it. This applies to amp, DAC, streamer, network switches, routers (and their PSU's), power distributor, etc..

To go even further, I would differentiate between inherent and acquired resonance. Inherent is the material's own resonance frequency/characteristic and acquired depends on all layers of materials/bases, on which the weight of the component stands (usually those are some rubbery feet, then desk/rack, floor, etc, until the first decoupling/damping material, if there is one).

I'm of belief that to get the cleanest and purest sound, we should seek the "best possible" resonance management of our devices in the chain. For me that means to get rid of the negative/disturbing resonances - both inherent passive (metal cases of devices), active (actively vibrating parts, mainly in PSUs) and acquired (from materials on which the components stands).

Now I'm realizing that in order to continue this explanation of resonance management and how to choose the best approach for various devices, this post would have been several pages long, so I'll keep it short from here.

There is one elegant short-cut to get the resonance management to the right direction-> and this is to induce the "good" resonances. Crystals like quartz are strong natural resonators, which can transfer their natural/healing resonances and essentially override the inherent resonances of the material they're attached to. They act like a patch that can heal what's wrong with the material/component and bring more naturalness and calmness to the sound.

But in order to work really effectively, they should have the connected side absolutely flat and be firmly attached to the device using a very thin and neutral material. I saw some of you are using BluTack and although one can still clearly hear the crystal's contribution, you're leaving around 60-70% of its performance on the table. I strongly recommend against using the BluTack for this purpose (or maybe only for discovery reasons) and substitute it with some other, thinner and more neutral adhesive like some ultra/hyper thin tapes from 3M. The difference is night & day as you'll hear yourself.

Last thing - my preferred crystal type is smoky quartz, since this one doesn't tilt the tonality to the higher-frequencies to the same degree as clear ones (but still does) and perhaps cleans the surrounding EMI to a larger extent. Look for shapes like the Acoustic Revive QR-8 and beware of larger diameters, as they tend to color the sound just little too much.

 

[Ghoostknight]

But in order to work really effectively, they should have the connected side absolutely flat and be firmly attached to the device using a very thin and neutral material. I saw some of you are using BluTack and although one can still clearly hear the crystal's contribution, you're leaving around 60-70% of its performance on the table. I strongly recommend against using the BluTack for this purpose (or maybe only for discovery reasons) and substitute it with some other, thinner and more neutral adhesive like some ultra/hyper thin tapes from 3M. The difference is night & day as you'll hear yourself.

oh i noticed this with crystals on the speakers but i kinda contributed to just better coupling of outside resonances to the crystal... so it gets "aggregated" more

your post reads interesting thank you! i also hear these changes tho i kinda get sick of the same crystal effect after some time... so maybe i havent found the right mix yet... do you have a link to audiopihle rocks mixes?

 

[Ghoostknight]

oh... audiophile rocks is that company that also offer these resonator thingies..
i found them some time ago but actually categorized under "real voodoo", mainly because this stuff is heavly overpriced even if it does make a difference...

 

[Wladimir]

Exactly, big crystals tend to impose their sound just too much on the equipment, especially on the source ones. I like to use smaller shapes just as resonators and the mentioned smoky type.

Here are the links to Audiophile Rocks: his catalogue is on www.audiophile.rocks and his ebay page with second-hand or unique prototypes: www.ebay.com/usr/audiophile.rocks

And I wouldn't tend to agree on Patrick's products as overpriced. Actually I consider them a bargain on what they deliver, especially the Terminos.
Just last weekend I compared my old RME ADI-2 (price €1k) fully tweaked with 3x Terminos (1x Megaras and 2x Deepsbays) and Maguscurum Wizard on PSU vs my primary DAC Lessloss Echo's End Reference (with the same tweaks).

I'm still a bit in denial, but if I had to be absolutely truthful to myself, I actually preferred the old cheap RME ADI-2 with the mentioned tweaks vs my full fledged €20k DAC..
Needless to say, I'm so much spoiled with the superb sound that without these tweaks, I can't listen to any of these DACs anymore.

 

[Ghoostknight]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/296317058883?itmmeta=01HVW1V4CD8G3SS8V12YVEB6WX
9 euro including shipping, nothing wrong with that, i bought it and give it a shot i will report back here

tho, also the catalog feels scummy if i have to be honest... i also dont think these things are that hard to make to make them unreasonably high priced with "limited supply"... for material cost of 50euro max

but i guess what needs to be appreciated is the research that might went into this... so i will see, "reasonable" priced can have different perspectives