[sokolov91]

Hey all,

I recently had my soundcard go haywire (drivers crashed I think), and produce sound that is what I assume the bowls of hell sounds like. I was so shocked with the noise, I do not remember how loud it was.

Initially I though that the sound was very loud, but I think it might have just been the drastic change in sound that caused the alarm.

Now, my question is, if somehow it was actually very loud, and somehow damaged by headphones, is there an easy way to test that?

My D7000 are new, and bought from an E-tailer, so I only have their 30 day warranty, because apparently Denon are ********. So I want to get this ruled out ASAP.

I used various sine wave sweeps and pure test tones and was not able to detect any anomalies....
Of course I used music too, and it all sounds great.

I have read it is not best to play music super loud through new headphones, but I have also read burn in is more snake oil.

What are the chances of this damaging my headphone, and is there another/better way to check if there is damage?

This paranoia had settled down after the incident, then a few days later, I was listening to "Blood Brothers" by Papa Roach... (yes they are cheesy, but they are 90 music that I love) and I noticed there was tons of distortion on one of the guitars... a buzzing/crunchy sound. I kinda freaked out, and then check with my other headphones, they did it too, but to varying degrees.

So, the distortion/feedback/whatever was coming from the song.

Does this mean the D7000 is just more accurate or sensitive to distortion in a song? Or is there reason for concern?

Thanks for any help putting my paranoia to rest

 

[Bilavideo]

If you find yourself listening to anything off of Foreigner's "Head Games," that distortion is not your headphones. It's the music level being driven into the red zone.

 

[sokolov91]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bilavideo /img/forum/go_quote.gif If you find yourself listening to anything off of Foreigner's "Head Games," that distortion is not your headphones. It's the music level being driven into the red zone.

Thanks for the answer

Red zone being above 0db I am assuming? Is that dangerous for the driver, or does it just sound bad?

 

[Bilavideo]

It's not bad for the driver, as long as the volume isn't abusive. There's a point where the stress on a driver can affect its durability. But when the sound level of the original recording has maxed its headroom, you just have a fuzzy recording, sort of like a blurry photograph. The distortion, by itself, won't hurt the driver. It's just annoying because the sound doesn't get any better, no matter how low you turn down the volume.

 

[sokolov91]

Well I am really hoping it is just paranoia. I have not test the CD you reccomended, but the songs it happens in, also happens to varying degrees in other headphones and other sources/amps.

Plus, I am guessing a sweep would have pointed out damage pretty clearly.

 

[haloxt]

Your headphone was given a 1800mW max input spec by Denon. Your sound card goes up to 2.1V rms. I think you should be okay. How many seconds did you play it while the sound card was acting up?

 

[sokolov91]

Quote:

Originally Posted by haloxt /img/forum/go_quote.gif Your headphone was given a 1800mW max input spec by Denon. Your sound card goes up to 2.1V rms. I think you should be okay. How many seconds did you play it while the sound card was acting up?

mmm probably about 5 seconds. Most likely less but could have been more. Definitely under 8 seconds.

Second 1: What
Second 2-3: realizing the sound card driver had failed and the sound would not mute.

then I took out the headphone.

If you could, what does 2.1V rms = in mW? I am pretty illiterate when it comes to this stuff.

 

[sokolov91]

The crazy thing is this:

My Xonar, if using the built in amp, makes clicking noises when viewing web pages and stuff. I am waiting on my Meier Concerto to arrive, So I had been using my iPod and headsix to listen as I am a bit dumb when it comes to this stuff and didn't want to risk any damage.

I finally convince myself I am being paranoid and plug the D7000 in to the xonar amp (front panel cuz im lazy) and low and behold, 20 mins later the thing goes ape****.

I think I am safe though. Listening to music like infected mushroom that is heavily mixed sounds absolutely perfect. It is only in metal and punk that I get this noise, and it happends on other headphones, just not as pronounced as with the D7000. It is most likely feedback in the recording or the CD volume being too high for the format like Bilavideo said.

If it were damage, it should be only in the D7000 and pretty easy to detect in all songs, no?

 

[haloxt]

I am just guessing, but don't think people have done in-depth "blast loud sounds then test drivers" tests. It's possible that you've slightly changed the D7000, but probably not probable.

Let's say 2v rms, divided by 25 ohms, would be a conservative 100mW, easy for speaker tweeters. Someone correct me if I'm wrong because I'm probably more clueless than sokolov

but the 108dB spl at 1Khz with 1mW becomes (with a lot of assumptions) about 127-130 dB with 100mW assuming the noise the card was making was only at 1khz.

I am again just guessing, but the D7000 drivers are probably very sturdy, it could likely reproduce 130 dB for a long time. It may seem loud, but it's because you're so close. If you turn speakers with similar sized drivers up to "live" listening volume, then stand next to it, it'll be pretty darn loud too.

 

[leeperry]

drivers can go +100dB w/o a itch...I've had a poorly inserted opamp outputting screeching VERY loud white noise, and my cd1k didn't care

but lesson learned, now I use cheapo phones for tests

 

[nikongod]

Quote:

Originally Posted by haloxt /img/forum/go_quote.gif I am just guessing, but don't think people have done in-depth "blast loud sounds then test drivers" tests. It's possible that you've slightly changed the D7000, but probably not probable.

I have done what could be called destructive testing, except no destruction took place.

Most headphones will hit at least 110db (and on ocasion 126, which is more the limit of voltage swing on my amp than the headphone I think) without breaking a sweat.

You need to worry more about your hearing than your headphones.

As far as "blast then measure" that is just a fancy way of saying burn in

(drivers changing performance after being used) I burn in at about 100db when Im not listening to the headphones BTW.

 

[oqvist]

As for clicking noises I wonder if you aren´t a bit paranoid sokolov. Isn´t that the ordinary windows side that activate when you click on links or on certain web pages?

 

[MayaTlab]

Just out of curiosity, is it true that (usually, not always), bigger drivers will handle distortion better than smaller ones ? That seems quite logical to me, but I just wanted to know.

 

[haloxt]

Maya, yeah that's about right generally speaking

. More ohm makes them less vulnerable to things like dc offset too.

Yes Nikongod, but I'm also guessing the frequencies the haywire sound card was outputting is much more stressing to the drivers than normal music. In my mind it will always be a question mark whether sokolov's D7000 was altered by the 5ish second crazy sound, but because I'm of the opinion that any input contributes to how the drivers' specs change over time, especially when we're talking about SPL that should be 5-10 times higher than what occurs in normal volume listening. The change could be good, bad, or maybe not even exist, but if I had to guess, I'd say the D7000 can handle 100mW of psychotic sounds if Denon gives it a 1800mW max power input spec.

 

[nikongod]

I usually use white noise to test SPL (and burn in, I believe!)

The biggest danger would come from a pure square wave (which I dont have the balls to put into a headphone) although I guess it could come from a DAC chip doing weird things.

If it did do anything, I would chalk it up as quicker burn-in unless they are obviously damaged. Headphones are FAR more durable than most people give them credit for.

My experience with blowing out a headphone driver (I have personally seen it twice) was that it was a very obvious break. In one the voice coil burnt out (I assume: the impedance of the driver measured at like 2Kohms rather than 40 or whatever it should) in the other the voice coil melted off of the actual cone (although it still measured appropriately!). Either way, there was no doubting that they were busted.