DENON D2000 OR AKG K702???
Nov 13, 2010 at 3:53 AM Thread Starter Post #1 of 101

tommyf

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hi guys, in these days i've been thinking a lot about these two headphones, i've heard them both but i'm still undecided.
 
i'd like to know your opinions about a few things:
 
1) do i really need an amp with the denon (i know it will obviously help, but is it really necessary?)
 
2) what amp would you suggest with the akg considering that i need a bit more impact in the low end and i already have a great yamaha amp at home, but i'd like to have something portable (fiio e7 style)
 
3) what you advise in general
 
i was going to buy the denon until i heard that quincy jones (my musical idol) uses the akg. if he does, there must be a good reason. my musical taste is mainly r&b, soul, new soul, some funky, some jazz and a bit of classical 
 
thanks
 
 
Nov 13, 2010 at 4:17 AM Post #2 of 101
also, if somebody who has had the k702 for a long time could tell me if the lack of low bass gets better after the burn-in
 
Nov 13, 2010 at 4:24 AM Post #3 of 101
Two completely different headphones.
 
To get the best out of the K702 you need a decent source and amp and even then its really picky about what amp it needs to drive the headphone to its capability, its a very analytical headphone and would for sure suit Jazz and classical with the right gear, but remember its very picky.
 
 
The Denon D2000 is a fun sounding coloured headphone that can be driven by almost any decent headphone amp, good for r&b, soul, new soul, to sum it up the Denon D2000 is the easier of the two to drive and much less picky about what source and amp it needs.
 
Nov 13, 2010 at 4:30 AM Post #4 of 101
i know, i tried them both, but unfortunately not for too long. long enough to hear the difference in the detail (voices, piano, acoustic instruments in general)
 
but then could someone explain to me why Quincy uses those cans if the Denon are better for R&B and soul? (guess what kind of music quincy jones writes) 
 
Nov 13, 2010 at 4:33 AM Post #6 of 101
or actually the real question is: do the akg sound better than the denon even with sould and R&B, once you have the right amp?
 
Nov 13, 2010 at 2:53 PM Post #10 of 101
The D2000 to me needs an amp. I don't like how it sounds at all without one. I didn't even like it much with my airhead. I think even a receiver or SS amp would be best. If I had to use my D2000 unamped, I wouldn't do it.
 
Portable amps are a bit mistake to use on the k701. Unless you pay a ton of money on a really good one ($200+), I doubt they can drive the k701 very well. I had the Total Airhead and even that wasn't a good idea. Your Yamaha should drive them just fine. My Onkyo receiver did. Usually when they're underpowered there is a severe lack of bass in my experience. The sound is just flat and very boring.
 
I myself might choose the D2000 over the k702 (not that it's better). I'm not a huge fan of the k701, but I'd need to compare them side by side. I'd easily pick the k601 over the D2000 though. The bass is just fine to me and I don't think it's quite as bass light as everyone says. For classical I guess the k701 would be better.
 
Nov 13, 2010 at 2:56 PM Post #11 of 101
As anadin mentioned these are two very different headphones.  One is open and mid-centric where as the other is closed and 
 
K702's large soundstage, bright treble and strong mids are great for classical and jazz.  I also like it with a lot of different genres but I have a soft spot in my heart for the AKG sound.  It is very bass light though.  The Denon D2000 will have a much strong emphasis to the bass (I find it a bit bloated).
 
Due to the bass, the imaging will be muddled with the Denons.  Though you can fix this with a bit of EQing.
 
The Denons sound okay without an amp, but I personally think an amp makes a decent improvement.  If you use the search function at the top you'll find there's quite a few threads concerning running Denons amped vs unamped.
 
As for the burn in about the K702, I didn't notice a huge difference with burn in in regard to bass.  My ears did get use to over time though and it has a great bass extension but lacks that punchy bass that you'd get with the Denons.
 
Nov 13, 2010 at 3:03 PM Post #12 of 101
Quote:
Quincy uses those headphones because he gets paid to be seen wearing them.


This. 
 
As noted, your two choices here are between two very different phones with two different needs.  The D2000 is a great phone that is easy to drive.  It's a little colored and warm, but wonderfully punchy, detailed, comfortable, and performs fantastically with a wide variety of music.  Midrange and low end is nice and full, and the top end never loses it's polish or sounds thin or strident. They are a bit heavy, but the ear pads are very comfortable.  These are closed phones, but they are not the most isolating...not much of a problem for the listener, but they leak a lot of sound.  Also, being closed, they give a nice up close and personal presentation while still maintaining a nice wide soundstage.
 
The AKG's in comparison are much more dry, sterile, and bright.  They excel with jazz, brass, vocals, and other "boring" stuff like that (kidding).  They lack somewhat in the low end impact, however the bass is very nuanced and detailed.  At the top, the highs are bright and sparkling, but the overall presentation, to some, is just too analytical.  The open design presents a nice open soundstage, and the imaging and separation of instruments are amazing...really pinpoint placement. 
 
As far as needing amplification, they both will benefit from a quality amp, but the Denons are a lot more forgiving in this area.  They can sound a little muddy or bloated without one, and an amp will help get a firmer grip on the bass.  The AKG's on the other hand absolutely need a amp to not sound awful.  Don't let the low impedance fool you...they will sound flat, dry, will lack dynamics and image, and sound very harsh without one. 
 
Regarding burn-in/break-in: this comes down to a matter of belief in regards to componentry, however I feel that it IS a factor in headphone sound.  Yes, they will both benefit immensely from an extended break-in period.  The Denons sound nice out of the box, but really firm up their sound and clean up their imaging after 50-100 hours or so.  The AKGs sound almost completely lacking in bass, and are slightly sibilant at the top, and require a LOT longer to break in.  100 hours or so gets them smoothed out and gets some bottom end to them, but they continue to improve up to around 200-250 hours or so.  As mentioned, there is more of a "getting used to the sound" factor at play here than much in the way of actual physical change...unless you really listen for changes you won't notice them over time, but try listening to a pair of out-of-the-box vs. a 500 hour pair, and you WILL find them quite different.
 
With these two phones, it really isn't a matter of which one sounds better...they are both excellent performers, and won't fail you in terms of performance, but they DO sound very very different, and you should go with which ever sound signature you like better.  Also, amplification should be a prime concern...if you don't want to get a dedicated headphone amp then you'll really need to rethink the AKGs.
 
Anyway, hope that helps...for reference, I'm a Sennheiser kinda guy, and I prefer warmer, lusher sound, hence I liked the sound of the Denons better and the D2000 was a nice closed alternative to compliment the HD650.  They are a fun phone, very lively and musical, with a deep bass response and amazing musicality.  The AKGs sound great, but they didn't perform as well as I'd like with my musical tastes, but if you are a fan of uncompromising details, analytical presentation, and critical listening, they are the way to go.  Good luck!
 
Nov 13, 2010 at 3:28 PM Post #13 of 101


Quote:
Quote:
Quincy uses those headphones because he gets paid to be seen wearing them.


This. 
 
As noted, your two choices here are between two very different phones with two different needs.  The D2000 is a great phone that is easy to drive.  It's a little colored and warm, but wonderfully punchy, detailed, comfortable, and performs fantastically with a wide variety of music.  Midrange and low end is nice and full, and the top end never loses it's polish or sounds thin or strident. They are a bit heavy, but the ear pads are very comfortable.  These are closed phones, but they are not the most isolating...not much of a problem for the listener, but they leak a lot of sound.  Also, being closed, they give a nice up close and personal presentation while still maintaining a nice wide soundstage.
 
The AKG's in comparison are much more dry, sterile, and bright.  They excel with jazz, brass, vocals, and other "boring" stuff like that (kidding).  They lack somewhat in the low end impact, however the bass is very nuanced and detailed.  At the top, the highs are bright and sparkling, but the overall presentation, to some, is just too analytical.  The open design presents a nice open soundstage, and the imaging and separation of instruments are amazing...really pinpoint placement. 
 
As far as needing amplification, they both will benefit from a quality amp, but the Denons are a lot more forgiving in this area.  They can sound a little muddy or bloated without one, and an amp will help get a firmer grip on the bass.  The AKG's on the other hand absolutely need a amp to not sound awful.  Don't let the low impedance fool you...they will sound flat, dry, will lack dynamics and image, and sound very harsh without one. 
 
Regarding burn-in/break-in: this comes down to a matter of belief in regards to componentry, however I feel that it IS a factor in headphone sound.  Yes, they will both benefit immensely from an extended break-in period.  The Denons sound nice out of the box, but really firm up their sound and clean up their imaging after 50-100 hours or so.  The AKGs sound almost completely lacking in bass, and are slightly sibilant at the top, and require a LOT longer to break in.  100 hours or so gets them smoothed out and gets some bottom end to them, but they continue to improve up to around 200-250 hours or so.  As mentioned, there is more of a "getting used to the sound" factor at play here than much in the way of actual physical change...unless you really listen for changes you won't notice them over time, but try listening to a pair of out-of-the-box vs. a 500 hour pair, and you WILL find them quite different.
 
With these two phones, it really isn't a matter of which one sounds better...they are both excellent performers, and won't fail you in terms of performance, but they DO sound very very different, and you should go with which ever sound signature you like better.  Also, amplification should be a prime concern...if you don't want to get a dedicated headphone amp then you'll really need to rethink the AKGs.
 
Anyway, hope that helps...for reference, I'm a Sennheiser kinda guy, and I prefer warmer, lusher sound, hence I liked the sound of the Denons better and the D2000 was a nice closed alternative to compliment the HD650.  They are a fun phone, very lively and musical, with a deep bass response and amazing musicality.  The AKGs sound great, but they didn't perform as well as I'd like with my musical tastes, but if you are a fan of uncompromising details, analytical presentation, and critical listening, they are the way to go.  Good luck!

It helps, indeed. The choice is kinda tough for me because i love both bass and great detail. so i was wondering: akg with an amp to improve the bass or denon with an amp to improve detail? (i like the warm sound of the denon better, by the way)
 
 
Nov 13, 2010 at 3:35 PM Post #14 of 101
The AKG 702 really lacks bass even after hours of burn-in. I'm in the process of selling mine. 
 

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