[LoveKnight]

I am saving to buy the Denon but I would like to try the Z1R too. I like comfort, quality bass, wide soundstage and lots of micro details.
It will be a pair of headphones I would you both for movies and music.

Then in my opinion you should try or buy Sony Z1R because Sony has better bass and soundstage.

 

[Diethard Kuehrt]

I don't have an answer for the interior of the 9200, but you're wrong about temp and humidity. Wood absorbs and releases water vapor all the time (lifelong woodworker and finisher here). There have been many examples of wood cups becoming out of round because of changes in humidity. Sometimes they do this to the point of not fitting on the headphone anymore. I've seen people put the cups in a plastic bag with some dessicant to get the cups back to their original shape.

If the wood is held tightly in place, and humidity swings are excessive, the wood can crack. Not common, but it is a possibility, especially with woods that aren't very stable to begin with, like the zebrawood found on the D5200. And some woods tend to contract and expand more than others. Oak is an example.

One solution is to use stabilized wood, but this doesn't seem to be a common practice among the manufacturers.

But we are talking about a tropical grass and not wood. It's not without reason that bamboo is used for almost everything in Asia. Even scaffolding. This material is highly climate stable.

 

[plakat]

Are z1r better than denon d9200? They have bigger 70mm drivers but dont know how they sound

There’s a reason why almost (?) nobody makes dynamic drivers that large… much harder to control partial resonances and diaphragm breakup at various frequencies. Sony seems to be happy with their effort, yet there’s no inherent advantage according to driver developers I talked to.
In the end it always comes down to „do you like what you hear?“… however that träumt was achieved.

 

[zolkis]

The Sony Z1R have bad colorations and a big muddy bass... I didn't like them at all. Also, way overpriced for what they are.

Over time, I have compared most available Fostex, Massdrop and Denon wooden cups against each other for differences in sound, vs some Lawtons too.
The Urushi / cherry (TH900) and the Bamboo (D9200) sounded best IMHO, by a pretty big margin, they were the winners in the Fostex and Denon worlds, respectively (not interchangeable). But were not the ones to measure the best (those were ebony and walnut). This defied conventional expectations and a lot of 3rd party wooden cups manufacturer mambo-jumbo. Note that I live in a very dry climate.
The bamboo cups also benefit the D7200 tremendously. The D9200 housing is the best possible acoustic environment for all the Denon drivers... but are a pretty expensive after-order.

The D9200 and D7200 cups/internals look the same, and share most materials: I posted internal pictures at least in the D7200 forum a few years back. I would not touch the internals of the Denons, they are pretty well designed and implemented (unlike the Fostex). The ear pads are also almost optimal (they should have less internal foam mass and slightly larger internal opening and pads diameter, that's all). Again, unlike the Fostex (and Massdrop).

Focals and Sonys (and most Sennheisers) are very well optimized, no complaints there: if you like their sound, you can trust they sound the best that could be done.

 

[shaafmasood]

The Sony Z1R have bad colorations and a big muddy bass... I didn't like them at all. Also, way overpriced for what they are.

Over time, I have compared most available Fostex, Massdrop and Denon wooden cups against each other for differences in sound, vs some Lawtons too.
The Urushi / cherry (TH900) and the Bamboo (D9200) sounded best IMHO, by a pretty big margin, they were the winners in the Fostex and Denon worlds, respectively (not interchangeable). But were not the ones to measure the best (those were ebony and walnut). This defied conventional expectations and a lot of 3rd party wooden cups manufacturer mambo-jumbo. Note that I live in a very dry climate.
The bamboo cups also benefit the D7200 tremendously. The D9200 housing is the best possible acoustic environment for all the Denon drivers... but are a pretty expensive after-order.

The D9200 and D7200 cups/internals look the same, and share most materials: I posted internal pictures at least in the D7200 forum a few years back. I would not touch the internals of the Denons, they are pretty well designed and implemented (unlike the Fostex). The ear pads are also almost optimal (they should have less internal foam mass and slightly larger internal opening and pads diameter, that's all). Again, unlike the Fostex (and Massdrop).

Focals and Sonys (and most Sennheisers) are very well optimized, no complaints there: if you like their sound, you can trust they sound the best that could be done.

Is there a huge difference between d7200 and d9200 in spatial 3d sound effects? Or a minor difference?

 

[zolkis]

Is there a huge difference between d7200 and d9200 in spatial 3d sound effects? Or a minor difference?

IMHO they are similar in sound stage, which is expected, since the acoustic environment is almost the same.

But when you change the ear pads to have larger opening, the sound stage scales up considerably. I'd say the optimal sounding ear pads for the Denons have similar shape and materials as now (good job, Denon), but ~5 mm more internal diameter, ~5+ mm more external diameter, and ~20-30% less internal foam mass. That means shallower pads than now. If someone needs deeper pads, need to tune other parameters. Such pad options don't exist on the market. Beware that the FR is changed by that, for somewhat more recessed mids and deeper (but not more prominent) low bass. The closest would be the D5200 ear pads on the D9200. Anyway, the stock pads are pretty good to start with, even if they compromise sound stage for better FR measurements.

As said so many times, the main difference between them is the drivers, which is IMHO far better in the D9200: stronger magnet, slightly different diaphragm and suspension. The end result is better mids+bass resolution, deeper positioned low bass, better microdynamics, and also the treble nonlinearities, similarly to the TH900 drivers compromises. IMHO the D9200 are well worth their price difference from the D7200, but the D7200 (especially if they lately changed the drivers indeed) are not far behind, with more midbass, less low bass and far more linear treble, making them a phenomenal value in closed headphones (and perhaps the most linear measuring).

I think the next possible wave of "good sound" might come when adding to these designs Bluetooth/USB/DAC, but using DSP to tackle the driver issues with FIR/noise shaping, avoiding phase issues, as opposed to IIR filters / EQ. But the latter can do also good. The Dali IO-12 and T+A Solitaire T (and price-wise the B&W PX7 s2, too) are good examples for bio-cellulose / paper drivers run via DAC/DSP, which even with lower class drivers than these Denons manage to sound pretty good, much above their weight. The carbon drivers in B&W PX8 and Sony XM5 could be better as well, but they seemingly intentionally chose a bad, bass heavy voicing (suitable for outdoors and air planes, which are their primary intended environments, it seems). The Denons are only for indoor use. But I don't know if it's worth for the manufacturers to add BT/USB/DAC/DSP FIR capabilities to these existing designs, especially with the HW needed for FIR filtering, as the price would likely be prohibitive. The good news is that all this can be done today in a desktop headphone system (or active speakers), only not portable yet, AFAIK.

 

[16tons]

Is there a huge difference between d7200 and d9200 in spatial 3d sound effects? Or a minor difference?

The 9200 sounds a way better to my ears, but I have bought both used. 360€ for the 7200 and 780 the 9200, worth the 400€ extra? Definitely yes but not the 900-1000 for the new

 

[Halimj7]

Get both types. I have Focal Clear MGs as well as the Denons. The same remarks about the singer songwriters are very much the same with both Clears and the 9200 both are very good indeed with the genre. The Clears do not go as low as the Denons so if it's slam you're after stick with the Denon. The Focals will give you wider and a very good soundstage and although I'm not a gamer I would imagine they could be fun games.

If I had to part with either the Focals or the Denon then the Denons would stay as I believe they are the better of the two.

I had clear OGs and Stellia and both left because of the 9200s.

 

[musicday]

When I will eventually buy my D9200 I will add the stax 007 leather earpads for better comfort, and wide soundstage. Anyway if you plan to keep a pair of headphones for many years is nice to have spare parts.

 

[StarTreker]

The 9200 sounds a way better to my ears, but I have bought both used. 360€ for the 7200 and 780 the 9200, worth the 400€ extra? Definitely yes but not the 900-1000 for the new

16 tons what did you get, Denon D9200's and deeper in debt. Haha

I'm so glad your loving them as I do. I've been excited ever since you got them.

 

[DMITRIY R]

I had clear OGs and Stellia and both left because of the 9200s.

What didn't you like about Stellia?

 

[shaafmasood]

Are airpods max compareable to denon d7200? In sound? Airpods max spatial mode provides open, big sound
Anyone compared them?

 

[Rakyan]

Are airpods max compareable to denon d7200? In sound? Airpods max spatial mode provides open, big sound
Anyone compared them?

As a wireless device i dont think its comperable with a high end hi-fi HP. Maybe it can create an artifical soundstage like the gamer headsets, but sound quality is a different story.

 

[StarTreker]

As a wireless device i dont think its comperable with a high end hi-fi HP. Maybe it can create an artifical soundstage like the gamer headsets, but sound quality is a different story.

I 100% agree with Rakyan! No matter how many advancements they make to a bluetooth protocol and opamp dac, running off a tiny lithium battery, its never going to measure up to true wired HIFI sound through a desktop amp, and desktop dac. I have a pair of Cowin E7 Pro's, a bluetooth can with 40mm drivers, and they have a very forward mid-range boomy sound, with literally 0-sound stage to speak of, barely any good stereo separation, and high frequencies are recessed, and the low bass teeters off at 60-hertz at best, 70-hertz at worst. And now days the battery don't hold a charge for nothing, so you got to plug a cable into it anyways for audio, as well as a USB cable to power them.

They are honestly past their prime and should be replaced if I want to keep having a wireless can for use with my tablet. Now yes, I agree, it can easily be said that the Cowin E7 Pro's, which are a few generations old from that brand, are not even audiophile grade cans, I know. But even with a pair of wireless cans that cost 300 dollars or more that are audiophile grade, are simply not going to compare to a quality wired setup. IMHO, if your planning to spend 300 dollar or more on a pair of can's, your better off buying a proper wired can, one that you know is going to perform well.

 

[Diethard Kuehrt]

What didn't you like about Stellia?

The Focal Stellia sounds spectacular at the beginning, but then turns out to be nerve-wracking after listening for a longer period of time. Brass instruments sound too hard and tiring on the Stellia.