ThanatosVI
Headphoneus Supremus
"Upgrade" is a questionable Word choice here
dCS Bartok
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Fafner
500+ Head-Fier
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Well, the T+A is great, no doubt, but I guess the tech moved forwards in the last 10 years.
ThanatosVI
Headphoneus Supremus
Well not necessarily. Headamp releases their CFA3 soon.
The Design is also over a decade old and yet still regarded as one of the best.
I doubt that it's any different for the HV Series from T+A
Andrewteee
100+ Head-Fier
Excellent! I'm sure you will enjoy it. I hope you don't have to wait long. Is yours APEX?
Prior to the Bartok I had a Resolution Audio Cantata Music Center (V3) which was super fantastic (still on hand for CD use if I ever get inclined again), but the Bartok is a notable step up.
Fafner
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Yep, Apex. Is the standard one even still available? Should be a 7-10 days wait.
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Fafner
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For those who got the version with integrated headphone amp, do you feel it was worth it?
I ordered the amp-less as I own a Volot and soon a Burson Voyager.
I own the AB1266 TC and may add a Susvara one day. As of Susvara, opinions around about Bartok’s amp seem to diverge. Some say it’s perfectly fine, some others say it’s far from optimal.
I ordered the amp-less as I own a Volot and soon a Burson Voyager.
I own the AB1266 TC and may add a Susvara one day. As of Susvara, opinions around about Bartok’s amp seem to diverge. Some say it’s perfectly fine, some others say it’s far from optimal.
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get the one with amp.
It's really not bad. It's very neutral sounding as they've gone for something that works with a wide array of headphones. It's nice to have the option as a one box solution.
I had an issue with my head amp so it was really nice to be able to still listen to quality music while that was being sorted out.
It sounded really good with the Meze Empyrean. It drives the Susvara pretty well actually but of course you really need a seperate head amp to get the most out of those.
If the option is there and not too much more ££$$ then I would go for it personally.
SolarCetacean
500+ Head-Fier
I listened to the dCS Bartok Apex and its SE headphone output for about half an hour today. Standard DXD upsampling was used with Filter 3 and Mapper 3. The headphone I used was my new Sony MDR-Z1R. I played around with some of the settings, but the differences between the filters were too subtle to detect within a few seconds, and I wanted to spend more time listening to the unit rather than just the settings.
Compared to the Sony Walkman ZX707 with DSD Remastering enabled, the Bartok is more open sounding, with slightly more depth to the soundstage. It sounds both more neutral and richer, with less of the direct bass emphasis/boost of the ZX707, but also more richness to the tone of notes. It somewhat paradoxically sounded both smoother and more detailed. I could hear that the leading edges of notes, the transients, were softer and smoother than the sharper attack presented by the Walkman, but at the same time I seemed to have an easier time picking out background notes and sound cues. Perhaps the increased staging and openness played a role. The result is that the Bartok overall gave a more relaxed and open presentation while the Walkman presented a more energetic, forward, and bassy+sparkly sound. The Bartok's openness was great for classical music in combination with the innate spatial qualities of the Z1R, and I thoroughly enjoyed Beethoven's Symphony No. 5 on it.
I'm not in the market for a Bartok right now, and I probably won't be for the foreseeable future as it's just so expensive, but I can see the appeal. I didn't think it was overly smooth, but it certainly was smooth and rich without making the listener feel like they were missing details due to that smoothness. On the other hand, I can see this sound not being optimal with other headphones. I was unmoved by the Rossini Apex feeding my Stax amp + Shangri-La Jr electrostatic setup. On that amp and headphones (which are already very smooth amongst electrostatics), I really enjoyed the dynamic and punchy sound of the Ferrum Erco while the smooth richness of the Rossini didn't do it many favors. The Z1R has the capacity for sharpness and harshness that can be mellowed by the Bartok.
Compared to the Sony Walkman ZX707 with DSD Remastering enabled, the Bartok is more open sounding, with slightly more depth to the soundstage. It sounds both more neutral and richer, with less of the direct bass emphasis/boost of the ZX707, but also more richness to the tone of notes. It somewhat paradoxically sounded both smoother and more detailed. I could hear that the leading edges of notes, the transients, were softer and smoother than the sharper attack presented by the Walkman, but at the same time I seemed to have an easier time picking out background notes and sound cues. Perhaps the increased staging and openness played a role. The result is that the Bartok overall gave a more relaxed and open presentation while the Walkman presented a more energetic, forward, and bassy+sparkly sound. The Bartok's openness was great for classical music in combination with the innate spatial qualities of the Z1R, and I thoroughly enjoyed Beethoven's Symphony No. 5 on it.
I'm not in the market for a Bartok right now, and I probably won't be for the foreseeable future as it's just so expensive, but I can see the appeal. I didn't think it was overly smooth, but it certainly was smooth and rich without making the listener feel like they were missing details due to that smoothness. On the other hand, I can see this sound not being optimal with other headphones. I was unmoved by the Rossini Apex feeding my Stax amp + Shangri-La Jr electrostatic setup. On that amp and headphones (which are already very smooth amongst electrostatics), I really enjoyed the dynamic and punchy sound of the Ferrum Erco while the smooth richness of the Rossini didn't do it many favors. The Z1R has the capacity for sharpness and harshness that can be mellowed by the Bartok.
In case you want a one-box solution, then yes. The capabilities of the built in amp are easy to surpass with a well chosen external amp lets say in the price bracket $4,000 and up. The Bartók is capable of far more on headphones than the built in amp suggests.
Thanks for the feedback about Bartok vs Lina and Lina Clock. I should have mentionned that in my setup i use only a Susvara with the Performance Envy amp (with Elrog MO tubes on the way) so i don't need any other kind of headphone amp. Still trying to find the time to test bartok or lina since it's a long drive from my place but i'm planning to do it on january i think. Considering my headphone and amp of choice, any advice on which dac to test first?
TheMiddleSky
Headphoneus Supremus
Tonal wise, I think you may like Lina DAC + Lina Clock more. Smoother, fuller, sweeter, even though with a bit less grande soundstage effect compared to Bartok Apex.
mt-hifidelity
500+ Head-Fier
I have the Chord Dave + mScaler, fed from a Phoenix USB reclocker. Its fantastic, nothing else quite like it...but I still want the Bartok Apex. Its just very 'right' sounding. Not studio sound, not more detailed or etched, I hate to say it's 'musical' but it is. It simply sounds real, with amazing tone and timbre. The mDave is perhaps a bit more 3-D and punchy, which is very enjoyable and even thrilling with the right recording. The Bartok is a bit more of a mature well-rounded sound.
Quick question btw, if i don't want to go all-in on the Bartok Apex, is it possible to buy a second hand Bartok and then upgrade it later into the Apex version ? If so, anyone knows the price tag on the upgrade ? Thanks guys !
ThanatosVI
Headphoneus Supremus
While it is possible it's super expensive still.
The upgrade from bartok to apex costs 9.900€ in europe
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