[lordearl]

Apart from the Cowon Z2 which has VOIP style phone functions, does anyone know of a DAP which has phone capabilities equivalent to an iphone or samsung?  The IT programming behind telephony is rather simple, so it strikes me as strange that ibasso, cowon or HIFIMAN haven't included 3G or 4G functions in their devices.  Certainly would save a lot of pocket space for us all on the train/planes etc!

 

[Music Alchemist]

If you want a DAP with phone functions, get a phone with DAP functions! =D
 
(Or an iPod touch.)

 

[lordearl]

I've tried S6 and iphone 6, but they sound like rubbish & i don't want to carry around an external dac/amp.  Nothing in the "phone" range seems to sound anywhere as good as Cowon, Hifiman etc...

 

[Music Alchemist]

  I've tried S6 and iphone 6, but they sound like rubbish & i don't want to carry around an external dac/amp.  Nothing in the "phone" range seems to sound anywhere as good as Cowon, Hifiman etc...

 
With which headphones?
 
Which features are you looking for specifically?

 

[lordearl]

I was using KRK KN8400 and DT880, also some Beyer buds sound is OK, far from great.
 
I'm looking for something which can be used as a server for my main speaker rig, with an external dac (usb/optical/coax), then just pulled out of the system and taken on the go as a phone.
 
When used in server mode, it would be good also if it could be remote controlled (like the new Sony DAPs, with wifi capability) as well.

 

[Music Alchemist]

  I was using KRK KN8400 and DT880, also some Beyer buds sound is OK, far from great.
 
I'm looking for something which can be used as a server for my main speaker rig, with an external dac (usb/optical/coax), then just pulled out of the system and taken on the go as a phone.
 
When used in server mode, it would be good also if it could be remote controlled (like the new Sony DAPs, with wifi capability) as well.

 
Could be an amping issue. Which DT 880 was it? Pro or Edition/Premium? Which impedance?
 
Which source components are you comparing to with the same headphones when you say the iPhone, etc. didn't sound so good?
 
If you just want to use it as a server, many phones have line out capability. You could also look into wireless UPnP solutions.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

  Apart from the Cowon Z2 which has VOIP style phone functions, does anyone know of a DAP which has phone capabilities equivalent to an iphone or samsung?  The IT programming behind telephony is rather simple, so it strikes me as strange that ibasso, cowon or HIFIMAN haven't included 3G or 4G functions in their devices.  Certainly would save a lot of pocket space for us all on the train/planes etc!

 
Phone functions typically are under more stringent regulations under each market's NTC. It's not a simple matter of just slapping known parts together and cramming them into a DAP already containing...well...DAP parts. Some of them may not work with them and making the prototypes to test and then gain certification can cost most companies interested enough in cramming a WM8740 and OPA2134 into a small device that needs a GUI (which costs a lot of money too) would not make financial sense given the cost of each unit (which may look small to you, but once you factor in how Samsung and Apple can distribute their goods...) and the relatively tiny market.
 
Your bet bets are Cowons since they make sure the software doesn't interfere with audio quality; or an iPod Touch with certain apps, like NeutronMP which has a good parametric EQ or Accudio which has an archive of headphone response measurements and corrective EQ profiles. Even Samsung dropped the Galaxy Player already.
 
 

  I've tried S6 and iphone 6, but they sound like rubbish & i don't want to carry around an external dac/amp.  Nothing in the "phone" range seems to sound anywhere as good as Cowon, Hifiman etc...

 
Vivo X5 Max - ES9601 audio chip
Vivo XShot - Cirrus Logic, TI audio chips
Meizu MX4 Pro - ESS9018 DAC and OPA1612 output stage
HTC One M8 - not sure what chips but I think it uses dedicated DAC and op-amp instead of an integrated audio chip
 
The question is whether these, with the exception of the M8, is available in your country. If you're in the US you can try eBay.

 

[lordearl]

   
Phone functions typically are under more stringent regulations under each market's NTC. It's not a simple matter of just slapping known parts together and cramming them into a DAP already containing...well...DAP parts. Some of them may not work with them and making the prototypes to test and then gain certification can cost most companies interested enough in cramming a WM8740 and OPA2134 into a small device that needs a GUI (which costs a lot of money too) would not make financial sense given the cost of each unit (which may look small to you, but once you factor in how Samsung and Apple can distribute their goods...) and the relatively tiny market.
 
Your bet bets are Cowons since they make sure the software doesn't interfere with audio quality; or an iPod Touch with certain apps, like NeutronMP which has a good parametric EQ or Accudio which has an archive of headphone response measurements and corrective EQ profiles. Even Samsung dropped the Galaxy Player already.
 
 
 
Vivo X5 Max - ES9601 audio chip
Vivo XShot - Cirrus Logic, TI audio chips
Meizu MX4 Pro - ESS9018 DAC and OPA1612 output stage
HTC One M8 - not sure what chips but I think it uses dedicated DAC and op-amp instead of an integrated audio chip
 
The question is whether these, with the exception of the M8, is available in your country. If you're in the US you can try eBay.

 
Thanks for the help - a good selection of phones there, most of which are available or will function here.
Have you tested any of them yourself with some decent cans?
 
The only thing I can't see that any of them have is a digital output (optical or coax), but presumably getting them to funciton with a USB dac would be fine?

 

[ProtegeManiac]

 
Have you tested any of them yourself with some decent cans?

 

Nope, prices over here are prohibitive and I got my SGS3 subsidized by the carrier. It makes my ASG-1.3 sound darker and with bloated bass compared to real DAPs, but NeutronMusicPlayer's EQ has variable Q factor, making these a hell of a lot cheaper than any of those that the carriers don't have. 
 
 

 
The only thing I can't see that any of them have is a digital output (optical or coax), but presumably getting them to funciton with a USB dac would be fine?

Yes but why buy something with fancy internals only to just use it as a transport? That's another reason why I'm still on the S3 (apart from the fact that it's still functioning, save for my buying a couple of new batteries to replace the original one) - I make do with it on the go, and then when I get home, not only does it function with OTG, but at home I simply dock it into my reference system or my transportable system - sync cradle and a two-layer case (soft rubber inner+hard plastic outer) that won't scratch the phone even with constant removal are easy to find on Amazon.
 

 

 

 

If compatibility with your home system is that important I'd say get the HTC, if only because you can get a dock for it. Or stick with your Samsung and just use IEMs on the go so they won't run into as much  of power issues and then just correct the response with NeutronMP.

 

[GloriousLettuce]

This may be something FiiO is heading towards. Having a Wifi on X7 is fine, but since were using Internet on a DAP why not go all the way? Inserting a SIM card to stream music anywhere you go would certainly make me want to buy it.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

Quote:

This may be something FiiO is heading towards. Having a Wifi on X7 is fine, but since were using Internet on a DAP why not go all the way? Inserting a SIM card to stream music anywhere you go would certainly make me want to buy it.

 

Or just get a phone made by a company that has all the resources and R&D dedicated to making phones, but with better audio hardware. There are a lot of phones from China that use dedicated DAC chips and amplifier circuits, and since you won't be getting the Fiio subsidized by your carrier, might as well just order one such phone from international shopping sites.

 

And then there's the LG G5 with a "hi-fi" module. I was hoping it would be Google's modular smartphone concept, but I'd take the G5...at least until I heard the module was by B&O, which on one hand meant "might get ICEPower!" but on the other meant "oh crap $$$$$."

 

[GloriousLettuce]

Or just get a phone made by a company that has all the resources and R&D dedicated to making phones, but with better audio hardware. There are a lot of phones from China that use dedicated DAC chips and amplifier circuits, and since you won't be getting the Fiio subsidized by your carrier, might as well just order one such phone from international shopping sites.

And then there's the LG G5 with a "hi-fi" module. I was hoping it would be Google's modular smartphone concept, but I'd take the G5...at least until I heard the module was by B&O, which on one hand meant "might get ICEPower!" but on the other meant "oh crap $$$$$."

Well I had that but DAPs just win on SQ and power. :/

 

[ProtegeManiac]

Quote:

Well I had that but DAPs just win on SQ and power. :/

 

Or those phones driving only simple load, high efficiency IEMs. I had my Note3 up against the original AK100 (high output impedance version) and the Samsung actually sounded better tonally while the AK100 was just quieter. If anything, prior to that I flat out preferred the DAPs (any of them, and that included the iPod) because the phones were producing a bad background noise (low but still audible). Reports to app developers and a few updates later (was on an SGS3 at the time) and the noise was gone, a few updates more down the road and the gain was fixed as well, so I didn't go out and get an X1 anymore. Before that gain issue was fixed my phone goes from "almost there" to "OH MY GOD TURN IT DOWN!!!" with one button press, but now the Android firmware warns me about noise levels since I can go past 50% using NeutronMusicPlayer and MediaMonkey.

 

[GloriousLettuce]

I had Z1 Xperia and found that Android has an inbuilt "safety" loudness limit that wouldn't even crank up my former cx300ii sennheisers, while iPhone had a lot bette output. Comparing it to iPod 5.5 it was of lesser quality. Having FiiO X5 which is like double the quality in the DAC and rocks with HD600, wouldn't trade for a phone honestly. And I won't be strapping any additional gear unless I get HD800S eventually.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

Quote:

I had Z1 Xperia and found that Android has an inbuilt "safety" loudness limit that wouldn't even crank up my former cx300ii sennheisers, while iPhone had a lot bette output. Comparing it to iPod 5.5 it was of lesser quality. Having FiiO X5 which is like double the quality in the DAC and rocks with HD600, wouldn't trade for a phone honestly. And I won't be strapping any additional gear unless I get HD800S eventually.

 

Well that's the thing, most people would use the phone to stream audio and then use an IEM, which won't drive decent smartphones into audible distortion (save for some kind of safety feature on EU phones, but then again, given the sensitivity level of the IEMs, even that won't keep it from getting loud), for use in a public place. Once we get around to open back headphones it's at home and there are other ways to use it, and most people prefer their computers or laptops. Or even with DAPs, but the thing is, in any case there are a lot of alternatives to a dedicated DAP with phone functions, and those computers/laptops can access lossless streaming.