[drp]

There have been several positive mentions of driving the HD650s from the Benchmark DAC1's balanced outputs. Has anyone tried driving the Apogee Mini-DAC from the balanced outputs?

I may soon have a chance to audition one or both. Unless I modify the 650's original cable beforehand, I won't have a chance to try balanced output. What I would plan to bring to the store is a D555, toslink, XP-7, and Zued HD650s. Assuming hookup as:
- DAC1 > RCAs > XP-7 > 650s
- Mini-DAC > 1/8-to-RCA I/C > XP-7 > 650s

Notwithstanding the hookup method, would using the unbalanced outputs be indicative of how the units sound from the balanced outputs?

I also want to drive my E5s, which brings the internal amps of both into play. I read that the DAC1's internal amp was better.

This would be my first DAC, and part of a build-a-better-tomorrow system upgrade path; will eventually include a balanced headphone amp and a better transport.

thx,

Dave

 

[tiberian]

not sure about the benchmark balanced out...didn't try it when i had it.

for the apogee...the mini plug out didn't have the clarity nor the soundstage of the balanced out, go buy a pair of xlr to rca plugs from cardas.
btw if you are going to use the senns with the apogee ditch the xp7 and plug it directly into the mini plug out...you won't be missing anything at all.

 

[drp]

Thanks, Tiberian. With the Apogee, reads like you were using balanced out with RCA adaptors to an amp(?). What connection scheme did you use at the recent meet (think I saw you compare the two DACs in question)?

I'm also assuming that the 1/8 phono is outside the internal amp's circuit. Can anyone confirm this? And yes I would miss my XP-7... 8~) I might have to sell it to finance this venture; painful thought that it is.

If I'm going to do this correctly, I suspect I should mod a senn cable, or at least grab the mentioned XLR-RCA connectors.

Thanks again for responding; hoping for more....

 

[tiberian]

Quote:

Originally Posted by drp Thanks, Tiberian. With the Apogee, reads like you were using balanced out with RCA adaptors to an amp(?). What connection scheme did you use at the recent meet (think I saw you compare the two DACs in question)? I'm also assuming that the 1/8 phono is outside the internal amp's circuit. Can anyone confirm this? And yes I would miss my XP-7... 8~) I might have to sell it to finance this venture; painful thought that it is. If I'm going to do this correctly, I suspect I should mod a senn cable, or at least grab the mentioned XLR-RCA connectors. Thanks again for responding; hoping for more....

during the meet the apogee was connected to the king o ppa from the balanced out.

 

[drp]

Waiting for my local store to get in a DAC1 so I can go in and test it against the Mini-DAC. They are still on backorder it would seem.

I pulled the original Senn cable out of storage and plan to pick up a couple of XLR connectors. I will definitely make the cable mod before testing and comparing the two DACS. The bigger decision will come later, once/if I choose one, when I have to decide whether to send my Zu to be modified. Yikes.

Not the most active thread; maybe it's all been discussed at length, but I’m now wondering how many are even considering driving HD650s from balanced outputs vs ICs to a dedicated amp (Bel Canto, etc.). Iron dreamer’s comments, as well as a few other mentions, were enough to make me think it is a very worthwhile effort, not to mention being a good upgrade path for down the road additions. I currently have a power amp with balanced inputs so there’s added benefit for my stereo system.

Still thinking the DAC1's internal amp will be a decent match for the E5s. WIll test that too....

 

[dshea_32665]

I am very anxious to hear the results of this thread. I have a Zu/HD650 combo and my next upgrade will be one of the big DACs so loved here: DAC1, BelCanto or Apogee.

I think the lack of comments stem from the fact that people just don't have access to this equipment with the modded cables. I bet when you get to audition these with the balanced outs, you will have a lot of interest.

dshea

 

[Iron_Dreamer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by drp Still thinking the DAC1's internal amp will be a decent match for the E5s. WIll test that too....

It does work very well, the DAC1's speed takes control of the E5's bass, avoiding the muddiness that can be heard on lesser gear.

 

[drp]

Iron - thanks, your E5-related comment tipped the scales a good bit; great news.

I ran by Rat Shack and picked up a couple of XLRs for six bucks each. I'll replace with Cardas when appropriate, unless I send off my Zu for recabling.

The Senn cable is actually 4-strand, with a positive and negative on each side. After clipping off the phono plug and following Iron Dreamer's instructions, I have pos to pin 2 and neg to pin 3 for each channel's XLR. Luckily, the connector housing is marked with the pin numbers. I also colored the bottom of one barrel to denote Right side.

To someone familiar with this cable mod (like ID....) - Does the attached pic look correct? Sorry about the pic quality. Everything ohm'd out just fine and there are no shorts.

DAC Settings – What's the proper XLR output (P5-P8) jumper setting? If I read the manual correctly, XLR output uses a set of jumpers to adjust how much juice is pumped out. I think the default setting is –20 db. For driving the Senns through XLR, does this jumper set need to be changed to the 0db positions?

Waiting with baited cables…..

Edit: pic updated with something a little less crappy

 

[Iron_Dreamer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by drp Iron - thanks, your E5-related comment tipped the scales a good bit; great news. I ran by Rat Shack and picked up a couple of XLRs for six bucks each. I'll replace with Cardas when appropriate, unless I send off my Zu for recabling. The Senn cable is actually 4-strand, with a positive and negative on each side. After clipping off the phono plug and following Iron Dreamer's instructions, I have pos to pin 2 and neg to pin 3 for each channel's XLR. Luckily, the connector housing is marked with the pin numbers. I also colored the bottom of one barrel to denote Right side. To someone familiar with this cable mod (like ID....) - Does the attached pic look correct? Sorry about the pic quality. Everything ohm'd out just fine and there are no shorts. DAC Settings – What's the proper XLR output (P5-P8) jumper setting? If I read the manual correctly, XLR output uses a set of jumpers to adjust how much juice is pumped out. I think the default setting is –20 db. For driving the Senns through XLR, does this jumper set need to be changed to the 0db positions? Waiting with baited cables…..

The cable looks good to me, but it is a touch hard to tell from the pic. SOunds like you did it right, though.

Regarding the volume, I used the digital attenuation in my computer, rather than change the jumpers, since that changes the output impedance. If your source doesn't have digital volume control, I'd use the "variable" mode and control the volume with the DAC1's pot, while leaving the jumpers in the original setting for low output impedance and hence the best sound quality.

 

[drp]

Thanks for the look dude. btw - replaced the posted pic with something a bit easier to see.

I will be using Variable mode, at least at first.

What's in question is the actual *default* setting for this jumper set. The manual states that the 0dB position, pins 1-2 jumpered, offers the lowest impedance, but it also states that the -20 dB position, pins 5-6 jumpered, to be the default position. (Funny thing is, in the same graphic, it also shows 0dB to be the default.) It's just a bit confusing as to what the real default is.

Any DAC1 users driving Senns through balanced output, and using Variable mode, care to pop the hood and see what the setting is?

Thx!!

 

[dgardner]

Another XLR wiring confirmation picture. RED and GREEN are NON-Inverting and goes to pin 2 on each jack. BLACK/COPPER is Inverting and goes to pin 3 on each jack.

DAC-1 XLR Settings, FACTORY looks to be 0db.

DAC-1 Revision level.

 

[Iron_Dreamer]

Mine is also set to 0db.

 

[Distroyed]

Nice job with that pic, dgardner. I would have been lost without it.

Im not certain what to make of this mod. It brings the 650's a bit more upfront, adding a more lively sound, but the low bass (70Hz and below) is actually sloppy and doesnt hit as hard compared to the standard 1/4". I'll have to listen more.

 

[drp]

Thanks for popping the hood, both of you; I can now just confirm the right setting rather than worry about it and post (and then wait) with a DAC1 sitting in front of me.

dgardner - What cable is in your pics? Looks excellent.

Distroyed - Looking forward to additional impressions after more listening.

D

 

[dgardner]

Quote:

Originally Posted by drp dgardner - What cable is in your pics? Looks excellent.

Stock replacement HD-650 cable available from HeadRoom, that I cut and modded with some Neutrik Female XLRs. The cable is very finely stranded, so I added some heatshrink to stiffen it up a bit.

You might want to check the Rewire Thread for more info.