[deskmate]

 
While I understand your point, quantifying volume and sound intensity in dB is a standard that's been used for a century. Also, for most people, 10x is really big, but they won't be able to feel that "10x more intensity" when going from, say 60dB to 70dB.

Agree with you that dB has been used for century in engineering.  I guess one need to learn some special items when pursuing a hobby. If people like cars, they will need to know about house power (or kW) etc.  but those are a lot easier to master, as they are linear.  so a 300 hp car is twice as powerful as a 150hp one.  The thing with dB is that it is NOT linear, a the difference between 15 dB and 30dB difference is not twice.  So for layman, telling me 15dB quieter doesn't mean anything, on the other hand 31 times quieter that at least I got a handle of what's going on.
 
Although our ears is more log scale oriented, our brain normally works in linear fashion ... 

 

[Brooko]

Talked to our NZ rep today (had a great conversation with Chris), and am really impressed with iFi, their audio philosophy, and their customer service.  Anyway - Chris and I talked about my interest in audio, and he's even suggested that if I'm keen, he'd get me some demo time with the Retro.
 
So I have a few other reviews to write and post over the next 3-4 weeks or so.  By then my micro iDSD should be here, and I'll review that.  Then - if the offer is still there, I'll talk to Chris about borrowing his Retro, and post my thoughts on that as well.
 
I have to admit - after this first interaction with iFi Audio - I'll definitely be looking further into their product range.  I'm really curious to see if I can develop a small rack system around ifi's products - maybe even to replace my existing desktop set-up.

 

[Brooko]

Oh and big shout out to Floor van der Holst and the team from NativeDSD
 
Just finished downloading my 4 choices - and what I've heard so far is wonderfully recorded. Introduced me to a new artist too David Elias.  I've bookmarked the site, subscribed to the newsletter, and hopefully I'll eb back for more at a later date.

 

[iFi audio]

  Thank you for the explanation, save me a trip to Google a dB calculator.   Why can't people wrote something layman can understand? Stop being dB this, dB that ...  Do we really need an engineering degree to enjoy audio?
 
Some others are better at explaining stuff to the general public, please try to use XXX times instead of dBs, even it means a big number, so be it. For example, it is a lot easy for me to understand "it is about 30,000 times better" than "it is 45dB better".

 
Hi,
 
The problem is that the human hearing is logarithmic¹.
 
So "30,000 times better" is misleading at best and disinegnuous at worst. In audible terms the difference is far, far smaller. Hence the reality has little to no bearing on what one actually "hears".
 
We agree that using this approach does gives rather inflated numbers (read: bigger and more impressive) and it may be more commerical for iFi to adopt this approach instead of using industry standards for expressing technical differences. But given the AMR lineage, it is doubtful if iFi will ever go down this road.
 
To date, we have avoided extreme² hyperbole; with meaningless but very large numbers and instead have kept things on the level. It may mean people do not understand what we try to communicate and that the other way may be better, but it just does not sit right with us.
 
What makes us most happy is that customers after reading our technical notes/comments, then go off and read up for themselves eg Wiki etc and arrive at their own, more informed conclusions.
 
¹ Logaithmic: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logarithm.
² We are sponsoring/marketing on Head-Fi after all.

 

[semeniub]

   
Hi,
 
The problem is that the human hearing is logarithmic¹.
 
So "30,000 times better" is misleading at best and disinegnuous at worst. In audible terms the difference is far, far smaller. Hence the reality has little to no bearing on what one actually "hears".
 
We agree that using this approach does gives rather inflated numbers (read: bigger and more impressive) and it may be more commerical for iFi to adopt this approach instead of using industry standards for expressing technical differences. But given the AMR lineage, it is doubtful if iFi will ever go down this road.
 
To date, we have avoided extreme² hyperbole; with meaningless but very large numbers and instead have kept things on the level. It may mean people do not understand what we try to communicate and that the other way may be better, but it just does not sit right with us.
 
What makes us most happy is that customers after reading our technical notes/comments, then go off and read up for themselves eg Wiki etc and arrive at their own, more informed conclusions.
 
¹ Logaithmic: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logarithm.
² We are sponsoring/marketing on Head-Fi after all.

And this is exactly why I choose to be an iFi customer. Please keep up the good fight.

 

[deskmate]

   
The problem is that the human hearing is logarithmic¹.
 

 
Agree 100%, but the other problem is that our brain is linear ... so in order to reach more people, especially the younger ones, may be put both up next time, so instead of "15dB", put "15dB (~31 times)" ... a win win 

 

[Mach3]

Oh and big shout out to Floor van der Holst and the team from NativeDSD

Just finished downloading my 4 choices - and what I've heard so far is wonderfully recorded. Introduced me to a new artist too David Elias.  I've bookmarked the site, subscribed to the newsletter, and hopefully I'll eb back for more at a later date.

What the, how? You must have very fast internet.

The two amazing album I choose is about 25 GB to download. Here are my two selection.
My jaw dropped when I heard this through the HD800.

-SERENA - DANCES OF THE DOLLS SKU 81014, Quality 64fs, Stereo & Multi Channel
-MOZART & CHOPIN - DIALOGUE SKU EUDDR1402, Quality 256fs, Stereo & Multi Channel

Care to share what you picked Brooko?
Will have to lookup Davis Elias.
Floor van der Hoist was extremely helpful and friendly, did the same and subscribed.
At the moment I'm in contact with max media. Skipping the iDSD Micro and jumping in the deep end with the retro stereo 50.

 

[evanft]

and the 1st prize* - micro iDAC2 (launch in early April) + micro iTUBE + micro iCAN + iRACK with 5 free Native DSD Music album downloads (worth over US$1000)

Goes to...evanft
 

 
This is really awesome! Thanks so much!

 

[Brooko]

What the, how? You must have very fast internet.

The two amazing album I choose is about 25 GB to download. Here are my two selection.
My jaw dropped when I heard this through the HD800.

-SERENA - DANCES OF THE DOLLS SKU 81014, Quality 64fs, Stereo & Multi Channel
-MOZART & CHOPIN - DIALOGUE SKU EUDDR1402, Quality 256fs, Stereo & Multi Channel

Care to share what you picked Brooko?
Will have to lookup Davis Elias.
Floor van der Hoist was extremely helpful and friendly, did the same and subscribed.

At the moment I'm in contact with max media. Skipping the iDSD Micro and jumping in the deep end with the retro stereo 50.

 
I didn't worry about the multi-channel, so my downloads were around 2Gb each.  Stereo is more than enough - as I don't have a multi speaker set up.
 
The four albums were:

1. ACOUSTIC TRIO DSD SESSIONS (2013)
   ELIAS
   DAVID ELIAS
   SKU SSP110413D64
    
2. CROSSING (2005)
   ELIAS
   DAVID ELIAS
   SKU SSP1661D64
    
3. WHO CARES? (2014)
   SONNY ROLLINS, GEORGE GERSHWIN, FUD LIVINGSTON, BURTON LANE, RUBE BLOOM, TADD DAMERON, GERALD MARKS, SEYMOUR SIMONS
   SCOTT HAMILTON, ANDREA POZZA
   ALFRED KRAMER,
   SKU SACD140
    
4. STRING QUARTETS (2009)
   HAYDN
   THE AMSTERDAM STRING QUARTET
   SKU 28209

 
I'm enjoying the heck out of them

 

[Mach3]

 

1. ACOUSTIC TRIO DSD SESSIONS (2013)
   ELIAS
   DAVID ELIAS
   SKU SSP110413D64
    
2. CROSSING (2005)
   ELIAS
   DAVID ELIAS
   SKU SSP1661D64

Wow DAVID ELIAS vocals are incredible. Nice suggestion by Floor.

 

[BillsonChang007]

  Wow DAVID ELIAS vocals are incredible. Nice suggestion by Floor.

Indeed! And the awesome mastering! 

 

[Mach3]

Well this 9 years old pretty much won me over in a femto second, simply wow!
From SERENA WANG - Dances of the Dolls album track 26.
 

 

[Maelob]

I am considering getting the retro system but i never had any tube gear before. how often should i change the tubes? is that something i can do or does ifi needs to do it. thanks

 

[EVOLVIST]

I am considering getting the retro system but i never had any tube gear before. how often should i change the tubes? is that something i can do or does ifi needs to do it. thanks

Change the tubes anywhere between 10,000 and 100,000 hours, depending on the tube. In other words, at the earliest when you're 75 years old, that is, of course, if you like the stock tube sound that iFi provides.

I won't speak for iFi but from the pics I've seen it seems like it would be easy to change out the tubes. This is called "tube rolling" if you don't like the stock ones.

I'll tell you what, though, I'm generally a solid state guy, but even I like the tubes that iFi has incorporated into the iTube and now the Retro, so I don't imagine you'd want to change them out, least you want a tube sound that is "unnatural" and "flubby."

 

[Maelob]

cool thanks, i think i am ready to abandon all the LH Labs Geek campaings and get a one box solution from IFi.