[paloalto00]

 
Gah

 
Do you have the smae problem with your pair? Also did you have a problem getting them loud enough without an amp?

 

[a_recording]

No, not really. It all worked as it was supposed to...

 

[paloalto00]

Quote:

No, not really. It all worked as it was supposed to...

I definitely got a faulty pair then, as well as some others. I spotted some a900x refurbished for $125? Do you think they're worth the extra $25?

 

[TwinQY]

The whole MA/BA/dynamics topic does bring into mind the idea - 10, 20, perhaps even 30 years from now (depending on how slow the industry adapts), how those graphene tranducers will play out. It won't be in the near future, but it's titillating to think about.

 

[a_recording]

Quote:

The whole MA/BA/dynamics topic does bring into mind the idea - 10, 20, perhaps even 30 years from now (depending on how slow the industry adapts), how those graphene tranducers will play out. It won't be in the near future, but it's titillating to think about.

 
Graphene.... I doubt this would take 10-20 years considering that we have carbon nanotube drivers today!

 

[Inks]

The JVCs seem to simply have CNT coating though, nothing full fledged, which will be too costly anyway. Not only that, they seem to have trouble controlling the thing...

 

[TwinQY]

From what I understand (and I don't seem to understand much these days), the current implementation of carbon nanotubes is simply as a coating for a still-dynamic microdriver. Implentations of graphene tranducers, as of what we see in demos right now, appear to be of an electrostatic design, which would take a bit more time for a company to tune and polish into a product as it's not of the usual convention.
 
When I say I'm curious though, I'm mainly concerned in the sense of mass adoptation. Considering IEMs which seems to be such a volatile and innovating medium (and I'm starting to sound like a salesman right there), the possibility of everyone moving on to graphene in the end becomes probable. Which is why I gave 10-20 years as an estimate - and even then it's still optimistic.
 
Perhaps I'm out of touch, perhaps it'll never pan out that way, perhaps it's simply not the way the industry will move, and IEM OEMs will simply staginate in the future. I mean full-sized stuff has been moving at glacier-like speeds in terms of sheer technological advancement (and in some ways it's not like they need to really). It's not like new exotic materials = better, guaranteed - that's definitely fallacious and perhaps companies like JVC have fallen for that already. But in the spirit of the dilemma addressed by your original piece, any divulgence from the current trend could be welcomed.
 
It's a very unreaIistic, unspecific, and probably not very well thought out dream, but I want to believe that they'll find a way to make the graphene-based designs mass-producable. Although at that point I guess we might as well be streaming FLAC files right to the brain.
 
And of course someone beat me in pointing out the coating thing as soon as I finish writing this.

 

[a_recording]

Quote:

The JVCs seem to simply have CNT coating though, nothing full fledged, which will be too costly anyway. Not only that, they seem to have trouble controlling the thing...

 
Quote:

From what I understand (and I don't seem to understand much these days), the current implementation of carbon nanotubes is simply as a coating for a still-dynamic microdriver.

 
Yes I remember being part of that discussion about teh FXD80's. The thing is, the CNT coating should still deliver improvements to strength / weight, in the same way that B&W uses diamond deposition. I think most fancy drivers these days are done by some fancy vapour deposition process. The only exception seems to be biocellulose drivers in the GR07 and the LCP drivers in the EX1000. (Both Sony developments which again beg the question - WHY SONY WHY?)
 
And the JVC wood drivers I guess.

 

[imackler]

One of the things I want an iem to do is isolate well. What is the best isolation among your favorite dynamic drivers?

 

[a_recording]

One of the things I want an iem to do is isolate well. What is the best isolation among your favorite dynamic drivers?

The Shure SE215 LTD I have has undoubtedly the best isolation, but it has a very rich sound. I like wearing it in the city, but the high frequency roll off is pretty steep.

Otherwise the next best is probably the RE-400 being a sealed design.

Isolation is not the strong suit of current dynamic driver designs sadly. Which is weird considering that you should be able to make a sealed dynamic driver and get very good transient performance as a result.

 

[music_4321]

Quote:

Quote:

 
Quote:

 
... This is the reason why I consider products like Ety's ER-4 series to be seminal breakthroughs, even to this day.
 
But then shortly after BAs came along, we all realized that maybe their LF response was a bit lacking at times?  Cue the multi-BAs and moving armatures and what-not.  Was it a perfect solution?  Not by a long shot.  But it was still better than a single BA. 

Tread carefully, Mr warrenpchi, you don't want to upset the Ety crowd.

Lol, got an ER-4PT and an ER-4S here... I'd only be upsetting myself. 

 
Let me rephrase that: Tread carefully, Mr warrenpchi, you don't want to upset the Ety fanboys enthusiasts who take their Bible graphs/measurements and spread the gos...
 
Me thinks Mr warrenpchi acknowledges the merits of the legendary ER4s, and I think that's a very good thing; he certainly doesn't come across as an Ety fan_ _ _c.

 

[james444]

Very interesting and well-written review / rant / read.

  Some of the points raised strike me as pretty controversial, but I want to read the whole thing at least two or three times more before commenting on them.
 
Quote:

The FI-BA-SB (aka Heaven S), FI-BA-SS, and the older FAD Heaven models did not use MAs (moving armatures) but something different FAD called BAM (balanced air movement).

Quote:

^This. I think it was established that this was basically a vented BA.

 
It's a bit more than that. The vented BA is enclosed in a (vented) drum-like chamber with resonating front and rear heads, which help to enhance bass response.
 
Some of you may remember my old FAD comparison and how I was tricked into believing these were MAs, since my ears told me they had better low end texture than usual BAs. Now I know that my ears haven't been all that wrong back then, because like with MAs, there seems to be quite a bit more moving mass / air at work inside FAD's BAM mechanism than in your run-of-the-mill type of balanced armatures.
 

 

[music_4321]

^   Oh, so that's why I find the FI-BA-SB & FI-BA-SS so awful yet still prefer their sonics over the ER4S clone, the FitEar F111, even when the FADs' distortion levels are—before Inks comes here to remind us all—er, well... er, pretty atrocious.
 
EDIT: (thanks for that, btw. I didn't know things were 'a little' more complex than I originally thought)

 

[james444]

Quote:

... even when the FADs' distortion levels are ... er, pretty atrocious.

 
Measured distortion is admittedly high, but I personally don't have a problem with it at my usual listening volume. Note that Rin's distortion measurements are taken at 100 dB sound pressure level.

 

[music_4321]

Quote:

 
Measured distortion is admittedly high, but I personally don't have a problem with it at my usual listening volume. Note that Rin's distortion measurements are taken at 100 dB sound pressure level.

Well, as you well know—and now I'm being a little more serious—I love both SB & SS. When I got the SBs, I was incredibly impressed and soon declared I preferred their sonics over the excellent EX1000, and that very, very soon led to my purchasing the SSs, which has been in my possession for over a year now and have no intention to sell.