[warrior1975]

Not me. Unless it was modded by Red Wine for more bass...

 

[Xacxac]

Heck, I bet Mojo SE is better than PHA3 BAL.

The only group of people who might mod Mojo is those who own balanced cables & won't buy more cable.

 

[warrior1975]

I'd venture out and say that those that have strictly balanced cables, won't even entertain the idea of a mojo in the first place. Just pointless speculation on my behalf.

 

[shigzeo]

I don't want to speak for @Whitigir but I think he was saying instead of modding the Mojo, which decreases it's dynamic range, why not just purchase a pha 3 or any other fine balanced amp,instead of hurting the performance of mojo.

Unless you consider the proviso I laid out (that no two Mojos are created equal) the mod doesn't decrease its dynamic range. It lowers the gain from the balanced output by what I understand is -14 dB. it still manages to kick out greater than 115dB dynamic range despite the lessened gain. If signal stability isn't a concern, it could get greater dynamic range. 115dB is about as good as any device can get. Even the unmodded port only goes to 120dB if driven to levels where the stereo signal begins to eclipse.
 

Exactly. I just think it's funny to say that the mod (however convenient) decreases dynamic range and then suggest stacking just so you can use balanced, which reduces measured performance anyway. Regardless, I'm not for or against, just pointing out the obvious I guess. To each their own.

 
Again, it doesn't decrease the dynamic range, it decreases the gain. All the amateur measurable metrics I have at my finger tips are measured in dB, and with a lowered gain, the balanced out (only this one) kicks out less voltage at the same LED setting. I chose to limit my measurements to the highest volume at which the signal was absolutely stable, which was several decibels lower than stereo eclipsed maximums (which are a bad idea anyway).

However, won't adding an external device decrease measured performance anyway...

 
As soon as you add an amp, the measurable performance has no where to go but down. It doesn't matter if your source is the worst on the planet; an amp can only perform up to the signal it is fed. The PHA-3, as a DAC, will treat your source as a transport and become a new source, so treating it like a downstream audio device only works in idea because it literally is plugged into something else. Sony's latest NW-ZX2 Walkman performs extremely poorly. I have no idea if the PHA-3 is similar to it or not. If it is, any Mojo, or any iPhone, walks circles around it, and vigorously.

No, not using the Mojo with the PHA 3. Using it instead if you want to run balanced.

For the record Relic, I completely agree with what you are saying. I'm just trying to explain what I thought Whitigir was saying.

I also agree with Whitigir, don't mod the Mojo to have it run balanced.

The whole thing lacks sense to me.

 
Unless you really believe in balanced. I'm not a big balanced guy, but having the option is cool. And, while the USB section currently isn't transformered like the SPDIF section is, Ryuzoh says he will do that. I'm not sure why he didn't because one of the draws of Mojo is that it translates any old phone or compatible player into a performance beast... except when the important thing is EMI and other interference.

Sorry, it's just that in the Mojo thread that's what I thought he was getting at. Anyway, the mod is convenient, I'll give it that, over switching to different devices. Especially recommending a DAC/amp that is already behind in measurements. Actually, I bet the modded Mojo will still measure better than the Sony PHA-3, which hasn't boasted the best performance (especially for the price). Don't' get me wrong, I've said from the start that the mod won't add anything to the Mojo's performance from the start, it's just convenient IMO. I would never have it done myself but it's interesting that some are adventurous enough to try it. For that I applaud them for ingenuity.

Edit: Also, I get tired of reading "balanced performances". Balanced doesn't default to quality, as we all know.

 
If you read the measurements, you can see that Ryuzoh's mod actually performs better at the same volumes through balanced rather than through single ended. The numbers ring out to: 20x less THD, 12x less IMD, and 21dB greater stereo separation at similar levels of dynamic range and noise. Of course, these are at volumes that no reasonable human ever would listen. And in the case of IMD and THD, are inaudible. But the performance benefit is measurable, and by a margin about which I would boast in a single-ended vs single-ended comparison.

The stereo separation question is within the bounds of audibility. I've taken separate measurements at loud listening levels (to cover a range of people) to illustrate the evening effect of volume levels on measurable signal quality. Essentially, no matter how good the source, its output quality (as a measure of dB) is reduced across the board when its volume is lowered. In most cases, the best-recorded music through the best earphones/headphones, through the best equipment falls well within the bounds of 16-bit audio quality. What high-performance gear like Mojo is capable of when the pedal is to the metal is truly phenomenal. Not that anyone will listen to such levels for long. These measurements I will publish later. 

 
Why would anyone want to mod this to be balanced when Chord themselves have stated for this design, balanced is actually worse? There's so much tomfoolery in the audio world where people just can't leave well-enough alone!

 
Well, it measurably improves the signal in a number of areas, even under load, when compared at the same volume levels in single ended. Will that translate into audible improvement to you? Honestly I doubt it. But the improvements are both real, and especially under load, and in the case of stereo separation, impressive.

   
 
When you were a child, and you had a scab on your knee, your teacher told you not to pick it, or you'd make it worse, but what did you do?
 
Some 'adults' are the same with audio gear.

 

Except that modifying your knee hurts you in the short term, and modifying a piece of hardware hurts no one. In some cases, hardware modification is bad news. In others it actually improves the utility or performance of a thing. For people that are into balanced audio, this mod appears to be a no-brainer.

 

[Whitigir]

Heck, I bet Mojo SE is better than PHA3 BAL.

The only group of people who might mod Mojo is those who own balanced cables & won't buy more cable.

Lol, I get it you love your Mojo, but have you ever heard of PHA-3 in balanced ?

I'd venture out and say that those that have strictly balanced cables, won't even entertain the idea of a mojo in the first place. Just pointless speculation on my behalf.

I don't have strictly balanced cables, and Mojo has credits due where it rightfully does. But I don't agree with people who vaguely state Mojo is better than a quality and dedicated Balanced device.

Anyways, after all, I just want to say if you bought a Mojo and modded it to be balanced, you bought a wrong device. Mojo does beautifully for what it was designed to do, and why mod it to bring negative effects (reduced dynamic range) and even to bother buying a balanced cables on top of that ?

I do also get the point of being a tinkerer myself, and also love modding, but my rule of thumb is never mod to bring about negatives from any gears, period.

 

[x RELIC x]

shigzeo, how does the modded balanced output derive a balanced signal from the SE output in the Mojo? It simply isn't clear how modifying the SE output to balanced can produce better measurements in this case. If talking about a system designed around balanced in and out I could see the measured performance differences between SE and balanced, but that isn't the case here....

 

[esm87]

Any mojo users here streamed hifi quality over tidal to listen to james bay new album? On my limited portable set up it sounds superb.

Anyone with a mojo and decent headphones/IEM's I would think would be in for a real treat. When people talk about good quality mastered albums, is this an example of a well mastered album? It's an incredible album either way

 

[shigzeo]

@shigzeo, how does the modded balanced output derive a balanced signal from the SE output in the Mojo? It simply isn't clear how modifying the SE output to balanced can produce better measurements in this case. If talking about a system designed around balanced in and out I could see the measured performance differences between SE and balanced, but that isn't the case here....

In a follow up article I will have a few explanations. Pulling balanced signals from non fgpa DACs is also pretty normal and has been used in a number of esoteric mods from Red Wine to Mezzo Hifi. Which is to say: it's not a splitting of a single-ended signal into a faux-balanced one. It's tapping original signals in the DAC or fpga to also spit a balanced signal.

 

[x RELIC x]

In a follow up article I will have a few explanations. Pulling balanced signals from non fgpa DACs is also pretty normal and has been used in a number of esoteric mods from Red Wine to Mezzo Hifi. 

Yes, I know, I am wondering what he did specifically is all.

Looking forward to your future follow up article.

 

[warrior1975]

Lol, I get it you love your Mojo, but have you ever heard of PHA-3 in balanced ?
I don't have strictly balanced cables, and Mojo has credits due where it rightfully does. But I don't agree with people who vaguely state Mojo is better than a quality and dedicated Balanced device.

Anyways, after all, I just want to say if you bought a Mojo and modded it to be balanced, you bought a wrong device. Mojo does beautifully for what it was designed to do, and why mod it to bring negative effects (reduced dynamic range) and even to bother buying a balanced cables on top of that ?

I do also get the point of being a tinkerer myself, and also love modding, but my rule of thumb is never mod to bring about negatives from any gears, period.

I know you don't have only balanced cables, I was just speaking in general terms, responding to a different post about having only balanced cables. I was just making a point that if a person only has balanced cables, I doubt Mojo will be on their list of desirable toys.

I'm all for tinkering too. I just don't see the point for me to do this mod specifically. Not meant for anyone else. I would do like you suggested, and purchase something that already has balanced output.

I also agree that making blanket statements, mojo being better than every balanced dac/amp out there is incorrect. Hell, it probably is, but I just won't say it is.

I'm joking, I haven't heard all of the different options out there so I can't pass judgment.

shigzeo Thank you for explaining brother, looking forward to your follow up article.

 

[shigzeo]

Yes, I know, I am wondering what he did specifically is all.

Looking forward to your future follow up article.

I'm sorry that it will be broken up so. It took me about fifteen hours to gather all the measurements for that 1000 word thing you read. Writing took another 4 hours (I'm not a good writer so it takes time). I burned out. 

 

[avitron142]

Guys, need help here. Do you reckon that international shipping will give me trouble because of the Mojo's battery? This is really important... (please, please no)

 

[x RELIC x]

Guys, need help here. Do you reckon that international shipping will give me trouble because of the Mojo's battery? This is really important... (please, please no)

Just look up the international shipping rules for the States. In Canada, if the lithium is a part of the device then it isn't an issue, at least not the last time I checked. Why not just purchase one from an American dealer though?

 

[avitron142]

Trading with a head-fi'er. It's coming to the US, but honestly... I'm horrible with figuring out what the legally worded rupes actually mean. Coupled with different carrier (dhl vs ems) policies, I'm hopeless...

 

[jmills8]

Trading with a head-fi'er. It's coming to the US, but honestly... I'm horrible with figuring out what the legally worded rupes actually mean. Coupled with different carrier (dhl vs ems) policies, I'm hopeless...

No problems if using DHL.