[Sampajanna]

What speaker has unlimited transparency and resolution? I think you are breaking the laws of physics...

I didnt say that. I said they dont get harsh when the transparency is increased in th front end. Unlimited was just a superlative meaning lots. I have Marten speakers, btw

 

[Sampajanna]

I may not have expressed myself well. Sorry if that is the case. I mean they are smooth, even as resolution is increased. My amps also have tube input, so they are relevant as well

 

[chesebert]

Why can't these hi-end digital audio manufacturers with their teams of engineers ever come up with something decent. It appears that whenever they come up with a TOTL product, some "guy" can always come up with solutions to improve on them. How embarrassing... /s

 

[Sampajanna]

Of course. Some people enjoy modding first of all. I enjoy this, why knock it? I’m happy.. And second companies have budgets, marketing and aesthetics to consider. The Dave has a small, strange box, for example. (I like it, but some don’t). Many dac makers understand the importance of power supply. MSB, for example increases power supply up the line, 1 for reference and then 2 for select. Ideon Absolute, which also gives modded Dave a run for its money btw, uses an off the shelf Sabre chip and still costs 30k because they have spent years of time, engineering and etc almost all devoted to power supply. It has something like a dozen supplies in it and tons of power supply filtering…. Some companies top of the line is smooth, like DSD dacs (playback Design is an excellent example of this). Those dacs pair well with highly resolving/forward speakers. They have a great balance of detail and musicality and are also good for people seeking “analogue” sound. A lot of the difference between TOTL of different brands is tonal/taste/spice (not all but a lot) and so synergy/pairing is essential.

 

[Sampajanna]

Just to recap from my system synergy perspective: My amps and speakers are smooth and I havent found a limit to this, no matter how much transparency and resolution i send their way. They don’t get fatiguing. Reviews from other suggest the same, btw. So, i dont need any tonal balance/musicality in my front end. I have it in spades in amp/speakers. So what i need need is transparency/resolution and dynamics in my dac. The Dave does this better than a lot of dacs. Add the M+scaler and soundstage and openess increase. Add the storm cables and a good server/streamer and digital glare resolves (Mscaler helps with that too). Add the DC4 and all these qualities tick up a notch or two + dynamics are increased significantly, including bass and more. All of that with my amps and speakers outperforms many, many dacs. Even ones that are much more expensive than this whole kit… If i were to upgrade it would be to a used MSB reference… Havent heard Lampi in my system, only with Wilso speakers. Have heard most else….as you said, Taiwan /HK have tons to hear…

 

[nwavesailor]

Theoretically a capacitor would just get better, but a real capacitor made with aluminum, polymer, paper, etc., why would it develop linearly? Wouldn't certain frequencies and attributes mature in complex ways depending on a number of physical, chemical, electromagnetic processes?

Yes, Rob Watts is indeed a brilliant mind!
I can't grasp a capacitor forming and then 'unforming' (?) or getting better and then it gets worse? I believe My perception of improvement or of getting worse may be real, but I have a hard time believing a forming capacitor regresses. Then again, I could be wrong!

 

[audio_1]

Don't forget, none of the expensive dacs mentioned above have an M-Scaler. Hence they can't reproduce transients correctly and sound soft imho. I believe Rob Watts is the only dac designer with the mathematically ability and psycho acoustic knowledge who really understands dac performance parameters. No other dacs incorporate
noise sharpers that give 350dB THD and noise in the digital domain, have long tap length filters and no noise floor modulation. Think of the possibilities of the fully transparent dsp in the Mojo 2. Imagine digital room correction and digital loudspeaker or sub-woofer cross-overs without losses!

Just because a dac is more expensive, doesn't mean it's better.

 

[griff500]

Why can't these hi-end digital audio manufacturers with their teams of engineers ever come up with something decent. It appears that whenever they come up with a TOTL product, some "guy" can always come up with solutions to improve on them. How embarrassing... /s

Even the best cars can be improved, unless you want to pay millions (and even then people have them customised to their taste).

If you cannot understand why being able to improve something does not mean it was not 'decent' in the first place then you do not understand about product design, intended market and price point, etc.

It's really a bit of a daft thing to say and the sort of comment I associate with people who are on forums just to antagonise and have an argument, otherwise known as trolling.

 

[STR-1]

To those who have a DC4 ARC6 for their DAVE, or have ordered one, what wire have you gone for with internal wiring and with the umbilical (Neotech or Mundorf)?

I don’t expect many will have had the chance to compare Neotech and Mundorf wiring in an ARC6, but I would be interested to learn from those who have what they thought. Cheers.

PS - I have a standard Neotech DC4 for my DAVE and am considering upgrading to an ARC6.

 

[Rob Watts]

I’m sure you’ve been warned of a 3 month break in period. I’m 2 1/2 months into mine. Was better than stock from the beginning but every so often a lesser day then better the next.

Break-in period on PSUs is a classic sign of RF noise creating more noise floor modulation. As electrolytic caps break-in the HF impedance gets smaller thus reducing RF noise by a small amount.

But it's better to fix the problem in the first place by incorporating proper RF filters...

I am not sure how Dave is even "semi portable" but okay

So another high end killer couldn't really kill the high end. Why am I not surprised.

Why can't people just accept this: you get what you pay for.

You do not get what you pay for in audio. There are two primary parameters to audio performance - design knowledge and parts cost. Knowledge is many orders of magnitude more important.

Audiophiles often buy vastly inferior and more expensive products because they ignore design knowledge, ignore their listening experience, and listen via their wallets/eyes/brand reputation.

 

[MvRBE10]

Thats whats mattijs is also was saying to me when yesterday i mentioned this point to him about the breakin and he mentioned the whole alot of silver used inside some designes what can create a vibrant sound and less neutral.

In his design is also the use of mks caps and these have same issues as mkp. So settling in should be a bit the same.

 

[Darkliner]

To those who have a DC4 ARC6 for their DAVE, or have ordered one, what wire have you gone for with internal wiring and with the umbilical (Neotech or Mundorf)?

I don’t expect many will have had the chance to compare Neotech and Mundorf wiring in an ARC6, but I would be interested to learn from those who have what they thought. Cheers.

PS - I have a standard Neotech DC4 for my DAVE and am considering upgrading to an ARC6.

I went for the Mundorf.

 

[TheAttorney]

I have listened to tons of DACs. This modded Dave does things they dont. Whether you like that is taste. I liked it better than all DCS and most MSB, for example. I thought the Reference gave it a run and came ahead in many areas, but that is 50k. Best not to knock what you haven’t heard….

Which version of DC4 did you have for this comparison? ARC6? Mundorf wiring?
And in what ways was the MSB Reference better still?
I'm just curious as to what further improvements are possible.

To those who have a DC4 ARC6 for their DAVE, or have ordered one, what wire have you gone for with internal wiring and with the umbilical (Neotech or Mundorf)?

I'd like to know this as well. From my past DIY experiments, the Mundorf silver/gold was a superb DC cable, easily beating a Neotech copper (and PH silver) I had at the time.
But it's an expense upgrade option, in the same ballpark cost as the ARC6 upgrade. So any direct experience of this in a DC4 would be useful.

 

[marcmccalmont]

Which version of DC4 did you have for this comparison? ARC6? Mundorf wiring?
And in what ways was the MSB Reference better still?
I'm just curious as to what further improvements are possible.


I'd like to know this as well. From my past DIY experiments, the Mundorf silver/gold was a superb DC cable, easily beating a Neotech copper (and PH silver) I had at the time.
But it's an expense upgrade option, in the same ballpark cost as the ARC6 upgrade. So any direct experience of this in a DC4 would be useful.

If you wait for the capacitor bank mod that I believe Sean is working on ( I’ve sent him details on what I did) it mitigates the effects of a long dc cable I used a very high quality stranded silver plated copper Teflon insulated hookup wire with good results. I shielded them also. My arc6 has Mundorf internal wiring,

 

[edwardsean]

To those who have a DC4 ARC6 for their DAVE, or have ordered one, what wire have you gone for with internal wiring and with the umbilical (Neotech or Mundorf)?

I don’t expect many will have had the chance to compare Neotech and Mundorf wiring in an ARC6, but I would be interested to learn from those who have what they thought. Cheers.

PS - I have a standard Neotech DC4 for my DAVE and am considering upgrading to an ARC6.

I'd like to know this as well. From my past DIY experiments, the Mundorf silver/gold was a superb DC cable, easily beating a Neotech copper (and PH silver) I had at the time.
But it's an expense upgrade option, in the same ballpark cost as the ARC6 upgrade. So any direct experience of this in a DC4 would be useful.

Only the 15AWG Mundorf umbilical is in same price range as the Arc6 upgrade, and is even more actually. The standard 18AWG Mundorf is a little over half the price of adding Arc6, and the 18AWG internal full loom is cheapest at 364USD.

Certainly the Arc6 upgrade will be significantly more substantial than any upgrades to the wiring, internal or umbilical. So if you are deciding between the Arc6 and upgrading to a 15AWG Mundorf umbilical that should be a straightforward decision for the Arc6.

If you're looking at cheaper upgrades, both the 18AWG Mundorf upgrades, internal and umbilical, provide less dramatic, but worthwhile improvements. The difference in prices do reflect the difference in improvement relative to each other. I originally had the standard Neotech copper OCC umbilical, and at the same length, the Mundorf provides both better clarity and fullness of sound.

For myself, I switched again and moved from Mundorf SG to Neotech UP-OCC silver for both internal and umbilical, and I like that the best. However, that is not on offer and would require a custom or DIY build.