[Malcyg]

...at least until Chord comes out with their digital amp.

That was quite unnecessary!

 

[TheAttorney]

'to be sure, you first need to confirm what is that actual absolute phase of the album under test'. So how can I find this out?

Erm...by listening to it.
Which is a bit tricky in your case if you get different results for the same album. I've found that absolute phase comparisons can be blindingly obvious or infuriatingly subtle, sometimes both at the same time!
Basically, any sound image that has an edge to it will have that edge more clearly defined, with some space around it, giving a more 3-D impression (This I assume is correct phase). If you switch phases, that image will get slightly more diffuse, getting wider and reducing depth, also sometimes appearing slightly brighter. As I listen to a lot of female singer/songwriters, I find it easiest to concentrate just on the central vocal image for this comparison.

It helps if the sound images have clean edges to start with, but even if they're a bit diffuse, I can still usually tell. Case in point is Agnes Obel, which somebody here (Triode I think?) has had the good taste to reference recently. On all 3 of her albums, her voice is deliberately processed for an ethearal kind of effect, but I can clearly tell on Dave that her "Aventine" album is Positive phase. If I listen to that same album on my portable rig (that also has a phase switch) I'm hard pushed to tell any difference with either phase setting, which I assume is becuase of its reduced resolution.

Edit: Speaking of Agnes, I've only heard her latest album (Citizen...) on free Spotify so far, but it contains a very disconcerting binaural effect on my headphones. I think it's about 3 tracks in and there's a sort of clicking sound that comes from several feet in front/left of me. Everything else is in or immediately around my head, just that single clicking sound is completely outside. Spooked me out when I first heard it.

 

[Malcyg]

Interesting, I've never paid much attention to this before. I took it as 'set and forget' as I assumed it was system dependent, not set by album. But you're right, it is much more obvious on some albums than others.

 

[stvc]

Bought a pair of Ansuz DTC BNC Digital, waiting for Mscaler to deliver but got to wait till mid of next month i guess ...

 

[Malcyg]

Ok, a bit of a niggle with the Blu II - the processing delays introduced are substantial and make it unsuitable for multi room play via Roon. I like to run the main system multi room with other rooms. Prior to Blu II, for example, I had the dining room delay set at 9ms and got perfect synchs between rooms. With Blu II in the mix, I have set the delay to 500ms, the maximum under Roon, and it is still not enough and we're getting stadium type delays bouncing back.

Probably won't affect many but, for me, this is a nuisance. I may have to reintroduce my Aries into the main system to play direct into Dave for multi room scenario's.

 

[Triode User]

Bought a pair of Ansuz DTC BNC Digital, waiting for Mscaler to deliver but got to wait till mid of next month i guess ...

Really????

Assuming you are not jesting, did you note Rob Watt's suggestion that it is possible that longer cables might sound better than short cables! Full stop, regardless of whether they are exotic or not. So it is not impossible that a 2m cheap cable might sound better than a 1m exotic cable.

 

[Triode User]

Ok, a bit of a niggle with the Blu II - the processing delays introduced are substantial and make it unsuitable for multi room play via Roon. I like to run the main system multi room with other rooms. Prior to Blu II, for example, I had the dining room delay set at 9ms and got perfect synchs between rooms. With Blu II in the mix, I have set the delay to 500ms, the maximum under Roon, and it is still not enough and we're getting stadium type delays bouncing back.

Probably won't affect many but, for me, this is a nuisance. I may have to reintroduce my Aries into the main system to play direct into Dave for multi room scenario's.

Just checking that you have the dither switch off.

 

[Malcyg]

Dither is off, but you have given me a potential solution. Just select sampling switch to minimum setting which should reduce the delay and enable me to regain synch. Thanks.

Not ideal, but may be a workable solution. Alternative is that when the Ultra mRendu comes out, I run that into Blu II and my existing mRenu into Dave specifically for multi room. Bit of a nuisance either way. If Roon could increase the delay to around 600ms, I'd be sorted. I may ask them about that to see why it is capped at 500 - but I guess that is probably more than enough for most scenarios. I only needed 9ms before Blu II.

 

[stvc]

Really????

Assuming you are not jesting, did you note Rob Watt's suggestion that it is possible that longer cables might sound better than short cables! Full stop, regardless of whether they are exotic or not. So it is not impossible that a 2m cheap cable might sound better than a 1m exotic cable.

yes i'm aware what Rob posted on the BNC cable test. There is lot of talk about USB, Power cord make no different, they are just make too much different to my ear. I always trust my own ear.

 

[Malcyg]

This phase issue has me a little perplexed. I assumed it was a system dependent thing and also recall that being implied in some reviews. Here is an excerpt from a Dave review:

'There’s a phase switch too. In our system the unit sounded best when this was set to negative phase – everything just clicked into focus, sonically. It’s system related though, so you may find the opposite to be true'.

Here's a quote from a different review - 'Other facilities include a switch to select positive or negative phase depending on your system.'

To find that it may vary per album is frustrating as I I can't really be bothered to be switching it around at that level. That aside, I'm still where I was when I came in on the point and that is that I prefer it set to negative now with the Blu whereas I preferred positive with Dave alone. The differences are easier to perceive with Blu in the mix which I presume is down to the greater accuracy and clarity that it brings.

 

[Triode User]

This phase issue has me a little perplexed. I assumed it was a system dependent thing and also recall that being implied in some reviews. Here is an excerpt from a Dave review:

'There’s a phase switch too. In our system the unit sounded best when this was set to negative phase – everything just clicked into focus, sonically. It’s system related though, so you may find the opposite to be true'.

Here's a quote from a different review - 'Other facilities include a switch to select positive or negative phase depending on your system.'

To find that it may vary per album is frustrating as I I can't really be bothered to be switching it around at that level. That aside, I'm still where I was when I came in on the point and that is that I prefer it set to negative now with the Blu whereas I preferred positive with Dave alone. The differences are easier to perceive with Blu in the mix which I presume is down to the greater accuracy and clarity that it brings.

Regarding your quotes from reviews, beware of falling into the trap of thinking that the reviewers know what they are talking about.

I had not bothered to reinvestigate the phase setting (I'm a positive guy) after adding Blu2 but maybe I should.

 

[TheAttorney]

It could well be system dependant - in that, if any component in the chain inverts the phase, then a switch can correct that.
The album dependent issue is a complication on top of that. If you have any OCD tendencies, then this whole area can be frustrating.
if my tagging statistics so far are representative of all albums, then one setting will work for the vast majority, which is enough to fool most reviewers who are blissfully unaware.

 

[Malcyg]

It could well be system dependant - in that, if any component in the chain inverts the phase, then a switch can correct that.
The album dependent issue is a complication on top of that. If you have any OCD tendencies, then this whole area can be frustrating.
if my tagging statistics so far are representative of all albums, then one setting will work for the vast majority, which is enough to fool most reviewers who are blissfully unaware.

I think so - one setting seems right for the majority of albums, but certainly not all.

I'm not sure whether to thank you or whether my previous ignorance on the matter was bliss!?

 

[Crgreen]

Regarding phase, an engineer once pointed out to me that given the number of times it's reversed in the recording process, even for individual microphones and other components, what ends up on the final master can be completely arbritary. I don't know if that's true of all recordings, however.

 

[Malcyg]

I'm only seeing 705.6kHz input on my Dave. Any ideas why I don't see the full 768?

Also, for any expecting their Blu any day soon, don't overlook the instruction to select forward when selecting the appropriate dual data input on your Dave unit. I plugged Blu into BNC 3 & 4 specifically to gain greater distance from the output cables and couldn't get it working until I realised that I was selecting backwards instead of forwards. Once you go forwards, all works ok. Initially, Dave will reflect half rate until the second input kicks in whereupon it switches to full rate.

Currently listening to Classical radio via BluDave and it is a joyous experience! Even radio is sounding lovely. I have compared hi res files with the CD of the same album and there doesn't seem to be any benefit over the CD. I am liking the BluDave the more I play it. I think we should call the combo BluDave for clarity and ease of typing and because it reflects the fact that this is a combined solution.